It hasn't started yet, read the time maybe?

are you seriously comparing a 1v1 game vs a team game in matter of skill? Says enough about your knowledge of gaming in general...

well u know that quake was and still is, look at CTF, a Team game. thats why i mentioned TDM (team deathmatch) before. it seems for me u dont have a cluce about quake at all, so much of gaming in general...

and here I thought the duel compo is the center of it all and CTF/TDM were just gamemodes that aren't near as popular amongst organisers/competitors, hence why quake is a 1v1 game. CS doesn't even have another mode besides 5v5 mr15 de_map rules = pure team game.

Tho I won't deny that it's exciting to watch (TDM/CTF), but I still don't get how u can compare 2 completely different games and say that the skillbar in quake is higher than cs. If any grow in skill has happened it will be in cs, where competitions didnt stop in the last 4/5 years, which can't be said about quake. Sure there were replacements (UT2k4,PK, q4) to name a few, but it wasn't the same game, whereas cs has stayed the same during all this time. Tactics/teamplay/aim have evolved, "new" players climb their way slowly to the topteams (gtr and gux being the easy examples). I'm not that familiar with QL but I believe it's only Spart1e who's a new face amongst all the "old" generation which played q3 on a toplevel.

I'll withdraw my knowledge statement, but stand by my opinion that you are wrong in every sense of the word =)

so u say, just because there are some new players lately in cs, its the better game??? well again for me you dont have any clue, or u havent played quake at all. i played quake from the beginning and i can tell u thats far back. from quakeworld till quake live has been changes as the same reasons as for cs...old players left, new names appeard in the scene and thats just natural of the simple reason they are getting older! at the high peek of quake, (quake 3 arena), many new names entered the scene after qw and q2. so you can see the game engine and skill developed, new names had the chance to get to the top, but the basic of the game was "always" the same. if you tell me cs is the better game just because the competition hasn't stopped in cs for the last 4 years or so, i have to tell you the main activity in the game was beetween 1997-2002 and again 2006 in 1vs1.. .1997 Thresh won a Ferrari and 2001 Fatality (correct me if iam wrong) won the first TDM CPL (thats why the name CPL became so popular till now, because of quake, later on CS became a main part of the tournament) with his clan Kapitol! There you can see how important the team mode was in big tournaments at this time, not just 1vs1. As I played for myself in this years for clans, its was huge compared to today or the last years. The highlight was playing against the team of SK one time :) which we lost of course but was lots of fun. Sk|Kane just one name to mention...

anyways, imho the skill level was and still is higher in quake of the simple reason it is faster, you have to react much quicker and there are much more things you have to think about at the game. quad, armor timing etc. In cs its just a fuckin bomb and camping (which needs lots of skill...), a few tactics yes ok. but more simple if you know what i mean?! because its more simple, thats the reason cs became easier to learn for the masses. and the story goes one...
i agree with you lately it became a 1vs1 game, but just because its not that poular anymore, so simple is that. but saying its based as a 1vs1 game its completely wrong and it just shows me that you missed the scene here...

for now i just hope quake live gets big again, coz i think the quakecon 2009 was really good and the games were fun to watch. the stream worked fine and the mods had a clue about the game...

so long

Where do I state that cs is the better game? These are 2 completely different games that cannot be compared in any kind of way, thus comparing skill lvl's between players is completely ridiculous. If u were to say that QL is a better game than UT than I can follow, both games are about fragging(capturing flag) within timelimit and controlling powerups.

I'll give an example of your reasoning: Does motorcross require less skill in driving than MotoGP? The only thing that resembles is that both sports are practiced on a motorbike, one being a lot faster than the other. Is Stefan Everts a less skilled motoracer than Valentino Rossi because the Italian rides 320kmh on the straight while Everts gets to just 120kmh on a dirttrack?

i can't judge about something i've never experienced before. for quake and cs i can say there is a skill difference. same there is a skill difference in sc and wc3. again sc is a much faster game, more things goin on at the same time in the game. wc3 is much slower and therefore i truly think its the less skilled game from both. but yeah wc3 at high level is still pro and i like to watch it as well...



HOWEVER, NOT everything which is faster means u need more skill, u dont understand my point. for example to compete at a high level at quake, you need a high amount of skill to beat the better players, so its much more difficult than in cs, if you are new to the game. cs is more user friendly and therefore less skill is required to play at least average. thats why cs became so popular, but i mentioned that before. in quake 1 for example thresh just destroyed everyone, even good players never had a chance against a more skilled player. so u can imagine for newbies it was very frustrating to get into the game. cs is lot friendlier to new and lesser skilled players, its fact but maybe u cant handle it? :)

its not so black and white as you say

And SK won every tournament in 2003 and fnatic has been destroying everyone in 2009, so u can imagine how frustrating it is for newbies to get into the game.

Again, I find your idea of cs being easier for newbies astonishing, isn't it normal that a game with a bigger playerbase has more newbies in it therefor you have more chance of playing against them which leads to the idea that cs is a noobgame. Have you ever played against a topteam in cs? Cause I certainly haven't and I'm pretty sure I would get destroyed by any team that goes to WCG/ESWC. The only reason why cs is still popular is because tournaments haven't stopped supporting it, if Quake3 was really that great of a game (like u want to) it would've still been played throughout all these years. Tournaments dropped the game, players went to other games (The reason is unknown for me, I found all the other FPS's inferior to Q3 but there must have been a cause for the downfall of the game). CS stayed all these years, it hasnt had a decent update since steam came out and STILL it's being played. Valve introduced us to CS:S and STILL cs is hugely popular.

In dutch we say: "ge kunt geen appelen met peren vergelijken", hence u can't compare apples to pears which is what you are doing here.

Anyways, last post here, CBA =D, was nice discussing :x