Hi everyone

I play holy paladin on Spinebreaker EU, named Sanctum. I noticed that most of the SK gaming paladins are using 10 haste rating gems in most of their gearm and also using the haste rating trinket (battlemaster). I would like to ask you what your experience with that is, since up untill 2.4 the most popular way of gemming has been with either maximum + healing or crit. Personally I have been going for 22 healing and 11 healing 5 int.
I'm really interested in haste rating and what effect it will have on my healing / mana. Im fully BT /t6 geared (http://armory.wow-europe.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Spinebreaker&n=Sanctum), im not talking about the effect it would have for t4 or t5 equal gear.
It seems like a big step to exchange all/most of the epic gems with haste rating gems, so I would like to know what your experience and theroy behind it is - also maybe someone made some research, calculations or tests that shows haste rating versus healing or crit?

Best regards
Sanctum @ Spinebreaker EU

The most important stat so far in Sunwell has been health per secound (hps) which makes Haste extremely useful, especially when FoL doesn't cut it because of the extreme damage going around which makes +heal stacking so you can spam FoL abit useless. None of us have done any theorycrafting because it just seems pointless, we play with what we feel works best, we tested haste and it worked out really well especialy when the tank is taking heavy damage on fights like Brutallus and Felmyst. Mana hasn't been a problem for a long time now, we always take atleast 2 sometimes 3 shadow priests, or if you check Brutallus movie the paladins get huge amounts of mana from being healed there, same with Felmyst as well, except vampiric embrace does most of the healing there.

For me, crit and +heal was best for BT and Hyjal, Haste seems better for Sunwell, atleast so far none of us will be switching back to pure +heal or crit gems and are intending to pick up the haste items that drop in Sunwell.

No edit key? Anyway I wanted to add that three paladins spamming the tank with rank 9 HL all with spell haste, then ranking up to 11 on Stomp makes the healing on Brutallus a complete joke, there is just no way in hell that a tank is ever going to die on that fight. Mana also isn't a problem because we use paladins as meteor slash soakers so we get around an extra 9-10k mana back from spiritual attunement.

Thanks alot for the reply, really appreciate it.
I havent tried brutallus yet myself, we are currently working on Kalecgos still, with a 2%/4% whipe as best shot.
Kalecgos requires pretty high hps aswell, but I'll try to see when we reach Brutallus wether regemming or not is the right thing to do for me and our paladins.

Winternight-
I noticed that you are still doing some gemming with +heal such as the +22 in the lightbringer belt or +11 heal/mp5 in gloves. Do you feel there is a certain +heal/+mp5 cap to hit before you gem for haste? Also how much haste do you feel is worthwhile on a paladin or are you going to try to grab as much as possible? I've really been thinking about gemming for haste and I've been trying to look into the theorycraft before I take the step to regem. Thanks in advance.

Sorry for not adding this before no edit. =/
I was curious in regards to maintaining the socket bonuses vs. Mackelina and Fenira who have gemmed +10 haste regardless of bonuses for the most part. Typically bonuses are not that great so I was wondering if it was an effort to maintain a certain estimate of healing and mp5 before haste. Thanks again for your time.

Yeah I like to keep a certain amount of +heal which is around 2200 unbuffed for now, any lower doesn't feel comfortable. I haven't regemmed stuff I will hopefully be replacing with Sunwell items yet, whereas macken and Fenira has. A few items will have 22 healing, like tier 6 belt and bracers, 2x 11 heal/2mp5 for meta requirements, then rest will be haste only gems (around 9-10). At the end of Sunwell I plan to have around 17% haste which gives 1.6 sec HL's and 2400 unbuffed healing, mana regen hasn't been a problem so far in Sunwell so I wont be foucsing on that at all.

As for how much haste is worthwhile, id say any amount really, even with my low amount (compared to Macken and Fenira) you can notice the difference, I was checking some other paladins on WWS with the Brutallus fight and they seem to hover around 2000-2200 hps in general, compared to us and other paladins that are using haste we are averaging 2500-2800 hps which is a pretty big difference.

hey guys i am playing pala at auchindoun server, my ingame name is Elfway.
well guys what you write above will be very usefull for our guild(SPQR) cos we kill easy kalecgos but we allredy 2 weeks wiping at brutallus like hell :P and ofc according our raid lider is allways healers fault :P
we tried to use allmost any kind of healing setup for that fight and we reach the enrage timer only like 6 times for 2 weeks(3 full days basicly), cos our tanks keep dieing.
we timed our heals and everything but i have the feeling that we are mising something :)

is it realy only the spell haste that we miss to kill him or is there something else cos i am the pala cl in the guild and realy have nightmares allredy from brutallus :P

plx if you have more tips for how to kill him, plx write here cos i realy have no more ideas and the only thing i can do now is to put haste gems on my gear and prey :P

thx in advice :D

Haste gems won't turn all those wipes into a kill. If you are wiping for so long it sounds more like a general healing assignment problem, how many healers do you have and what are there jobs? For example for us, we use 7 healers, 3 paladins who non-stop cast ranks 8/9 HL on the current tank, ranking up to rank 11 on stomps, 2 resto shamans healing the Meteor Slash people whilst bouncing the chains off the tanks, this is really impoant as it means the tanks will get the 25% armor increase from the shamans crits which is a huge buff here, then we have a holy priest and resto druid keeping hots on the tanks and healing people who have Burn.

Make sure tanks are using full consumables too, things like Ironshield Potion and food buffs should always be up. If they have nightmare seeds, moroes lucky pocket watch, shadowmoon insignia as trinkets, then tell them to use one of those items for each stomp, it will help alot, also last stand one of the stomps as well. Thats 4 stomps in a row where they will have either alot of avoidance or alot of health, and those cooldowns will be back up again to use after the 4th.

thx alot for the response m8 i think we need to try those assignments cos i think so far we didn't try that exact assignments :)

thx alot again :)

about your question for our assignments so far,
we tried with 8 healers: 4 palas on mt and resto shammy for the armor buff - which i think was a bit useless, 2 priests on raid and 1 shammy and a druid on burn targets.

we tried also with 7 healers: this was working better then 8 healers actualy cos i think when we go there with 8 some of our healers start to slack a bit :P - the assignments was like this: 3 palas on m8 and a resto shammy, 2 priests on raid, 1 druid and 1 shammy on burn.

or like this - 2 palas and 2 priests on mt, 1 druid and 1 pala on burn, and 2 shammy on raid

and our tanks was kind didnt do that rotation on trinkets and pots for what you said, cos most of the times i was seeing them using at 1 stomp - nightmare seed, ironshield pot and last stand.

well tonight we are going sunwell and with some luck and your guides i think brutallus will drop dead :D

Have all your palas heal the tanks, all your shamans heal the raid and have your priests/druids heal burn. A tank with 3 palas spamming him should never die.

well what i can say now is that we can keep tanks up but our dps start failing every time like 9 - 7 %

which is gg. :)

flaming dps 24/7 - priceless :P

Hello :).

Kind of hopping winternight that you are still about, or one of the other SK gaming paladins. We downed Brutalus tonight, and me and my friend exy are both Crit/Healing paladins, healing on brut was fine we did it with the 7 healers us and a priest on the 2 MTs.

Although we are looking into going haste ourselves, as we have both been reading about paladins going haste and the HPS really helping out in sunwell, as i can see they must because its not really a FoL instance. Though i do wonder do you guys use a SP when your paladins are haste geared like you are?. Our GM hates giving us a SP.. don't ask me why tbh paladins do best with a SP imo, but so do all classes i guess. Like tonight when we killed brut, the SPs was in the caster groups..

Im just worried that if we do go to haste, we are going to lose to much crit that helps on mana back in the first place, any thoughts on this situation?.

Cheers

Bod.

Yeah im not sure if it's worth going haste if you don't get a good group to back it up, probally crit/healing is better if you never get a shadow priest, we are lucky in that we get one for every boss except sometimes Kalecgos, caster dps also gets one as well so it's not like we sacrifice dps for it either, we just bring a few shadow priests.

we often use 3 shadow priests, how can you say to no to 300mp5 for every memeber in a group :)

*member

oh and yeah ofc the healing on some fights is really nice !

Cheers for the reply mate, me and exy want to do it because we think the extra HPS is going to help alot, though just need to convince our GM about giving us a SP :P. cheers again

bod.

I also noticed the use of libram of absolute truth. Is this pretty much always on, or do you swap between libram of mending for every 30 seconds as well. (Is it highly necessary to have for haste builds).

Libram of Absolute Truth helps you to save a lot of mana while the benefit from Libram of Souls Redeemed doesn't help you much.

I can confirm that even if you do not have a shadow priest, haste is just brilliant to have. I'm running with 180 atm (aiming for 250-300) & it's working perfectly fine and rarely get a shadowpriest these days since we usualy only take 2 anymore & they go to warlocks/mages.

On Brutallus we regen so much mana from the meteor slashes that you really can't go out of mana if you don't play too retarded. Felmyst is even better, I can pretty much spam HL r11 there without ever going oom, don't even have to pot for that. Eredar Twins same story rly... Pretty much same story for every sunwell boss so far imo. You just gotta be a bit stubborn I guess and expect to be healed. Don't get yourself killed ofcourse but you get my picture.

Anyway. All in all, if possible mana problems are the one thing holding you back from resocketting to haste, go for it I would say. You'll notice haste improves your preformance by quite alot and I am yet to expierence any mana issues at all.

hello,

i got 230 haste atm it is like 14% and i am happy with it. :)
about mana issues i cant tell cos basicly never had group without sp since i start using it :)

Hey,

I've also been thinking quite alot about haste, since we have some problems keeping our tanks up on brutallus, and are now on twins.
(my profile http://armory.wow-europe.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azjol-Nerub&n=Oxxa)

My real big consern is mana, i can still go OOM healing brutallis with 0 haste and a shadowpriest, using rank8 and upranking to 11 during stomp, chainpotting/using cd ofc.
Do you get extra love besides the spriest? or do ours just not generate enought mana? (1.3k dps tops usualy)

We also don't get a spriest for any other encounter :(

Do you take the meteor slashes? That's alot of mana back from spiritual attunement just from that. Our group for Brutallus is always, 3x holy paladin, 1 shadow priest and a resto shaman for mana tide. If the shaman uses tide really early, then it should be back up near the end as well which helps alot with mana.

We take the slashes, 2x tide

2x tide is very nice, we never get a shaman :(
(seems forum bugs on the open bracer char and cut everything after it)