Forum > Warcraft III
No patch this year, WHY BLIZZ?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0soUVcc76M
Posted: 2007-12-22 12:15:09
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I dont care, I have already switched to elf.
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A+, as always
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fake men, fake :x
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haha rofl :D nice clip
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christmas isnt gana be the same without a patch..but at least we have wirtten proof that in 2-3 weeeks... us UND will stop losing in incredibly outrageous ways to the Noobhu and noobelfs
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ye this guy rocks ;p
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rock head......
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@ToD
You really dont like ud, do you Tod, btw are you one of those who can test play the new patch?
If so try to see the game from my perspective. Which means the same as; try to see the game from an undeads perspective.
Would you like to play vs mass towers?
You really dont like ud, do you Tod, btw are you one of those who can test play the new patch?
If so try to see the game from my perspective. Which means the same as; try to see the game from an undeads perspective.
Would you like to play vs mass towers?
+19 thumbs
TPN, every race has strong units which each counter the other. There is a lot of things i dislike to play against or i think are strong but i just try and use the strongest units of my race. I didn't complain about Undead, i just think it's sad to see everyone whine so much, i used to whine a lot myself and everyone would flame me for it, now i dont do it and it seems like the whole community does it instead. I try to look the game from your perspective and YES it can be boring to play vs mass towers as an Undead but as long as there is still a chance to win it's a good challenge imo and Undead has more than a chance to beat Human. Now YOU should try to see the game from my perspective, DK panda lvl3 and 5 destros, how many towers do you think Human needs to defend this ? We dont go mass towers cuz we love it, or to piss off Undeads, we do it cuz it's NECESSARY, i think you need to understand that and stop blinding yourself from the great results some Undeads have been pulling. ( in NGL playoffs many undeads raped everyone, AWL, PGL where Sweet and FoV went rampage ) just because you have struggle to beat something doesnt mean it's imba. There is no unbeatable strategy in Warcraft... There is no "imba" that cannot be broken... think about it. 2 options are left for you 1: Try, 2: Whine
make your choice!
make your choice!
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Very interessting reading tod, im glad that YOU, who i use to think about as a towerguy took your time to write this.
I do understand the hard thing for humans to. I actually tried to play human some myself every now and then and yes, i had huge problems vs ud even though i towerd like ****. The thing with towers is that it is such a boring thing to do imo. It just ruins some fun parts of the game. Yes i know undead players have been achieving some good results at some events.
But i also do know, that humans have done that to. And human players have done that in a much more fun way before. Now every human say that they cant win vs ud without towers, but I do remember times when for example SK.Heman and Insomnia used to win withouth towers aswell. Human blame the towers on that they have weak units, but i doubt that. How come they could win way back then? Even before this mass-tower-disease that has been messing the ladder for so long. Making thousand of humans level 30-40 with 50% stats and 500 games.
Perhaps its not really the same matchup that we both play. Me and my level, and you at your pro-level. But atleast at my level, i do play vs these lamers far to much. Perhaps there are something you could do vs it but i havent really get it so far. I know that destroyers can beat like 8-12 towers, but above that, its just pure raping. And since i cant expand as easy as the humans, it is very hard to counter the mass that the humans start up with at T3.
Yes i know the nuke sucks. But actually the human nuke vs Dk is even worse sometimes. Mountainking stormbolt with stun, thunderclap + holy light (which is instant cast, while the coil have to be in the air for some seconds before it hit). So its not like human can blame it on nuke that much either, they got staff to. Oh damn, i thought many times, ahh i wish i had a staff when facing montain king + paladin. But i dont. And i dont got mass gold for potions and stuffs either. So humans dont have weaker heroes imo.
I choose to try, but the whining is alot easier, which you should have experiences of!
I do understand the hard thing for humans to. I actually tried to play human some myself every now and then and yes, i had huge problems vs ud even though i towerd like ****. The thing with towers is that it is such a boring thing to do imo. It just ruins some fun parts of the game. Yes i know undead players have been achieving some good results at some events.
But i also do know, that humans have done that to. And human players have done that in a much more fun way before. Now every human say that they cant win vs ud without towers, but I do remember times when for example SK.Heman and Insomnia used to win withouth towers aswell. Human blame the towers on that they have weak units, but i doubt that. How come they could win way back then? Even before this mass-tower-disease that has been messing the ladder for so long. Making thousand of humans level 30-40 with 50% stats and 500 games.
Perhaps its not really the same matchup that we both play. Me and my level, and you at your pro-level. But atleast at my level, i do play vs these lamers far to much. Perhaps there are something you could do vs it but i havent really get it so far. I know that destroyers can beat like 8-12 towers, but above that, its just pure raping. And since i cant expand as easy as the humans, it is very hard to counter the mass that the humans start up with at T3.
Yes i know the nuke sucks. But actually the human nuke vs Dk is even worse sometimes. Mountainking stormbolt with stun, thunderclap + holy light (which is instant cast, while the coil have to be in the air for some seconds before it hit). So its not like human can blame it on nuke that much either, they got staff to. Oh damn, i thought many times, ahh i wish i had a staff when facing montain king + paladin. But i dont. And i dont got mass gold for potions and stuffs either. So humans dont have weaker heroes imo.
I choose to try, but the whining is alot easier, which you should have experiences of!
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"but I do remember times when for example SK.Heman and Insomnia used to win withouth towers aswell."
The matchup changed so much since ... Humans used to play Rifle caster, and the time we could win some series was when Undead would only play tri hero mass ghoul frenzy, but then they discovered aboms&destros and all the Humans started losing more and more so we had to find new stuff. During the ESWC Lucifer won he was untouchable in this matchup, and the other top Undeads were also doing really good vs Human ( there was a racewar held in asia where Undead crushed Human ), but then some Humans started playing mass towers & siege units and we did a lot better than with regular units so we switched to it.
Most recently just when i thought every strategies of the patch have been exploited and Human has a huge advantage over Undead some Undeads surprised me with alot of good strategies including spiders and perfectly timed attacks and i lost a whole set of games to it, aswell as vs FoV's style which include geting a lot of mercenaries and even stealing those i'm supposed to buy to cripple my expanding.
I didn't complain about nuke but if some Humans did i shall enlighten you about the situation being : archmage is the most valuable first hero for various reasons. Easier creeping, easier to set up and expo. So when DK could be 3 am will be 3 aswell, and with an expo, making him having late tech, when a mk1 comes and perhaps a pala1 ud heroes can already be much more leveled than the Human's, that's where the nuking part is really annoying and that is also why Human relies more on having towers at this point instead of geting outnuked outside their base they need to gather a bigger army and try to win with it.
I dont think Human have that weak units, but i think vs Undead it's THE best unit :) i tried making only 3 or 4 towers per base in PGL and i went 0/4 vs Sweet and 1/4 vs FoV, 15 gargs with 1/0 upgrade attacked my main which had 4 towers and broke in so easily then i lost all paesants , archmage etc etc!
Maybe u should try to review ur view of the game, watch replays or matches of the top Undeads crushing some Humans and do what they did with a good mindset not filled with imba thoughts and believe me u will enjoy the game more than ever.
Iam an experienced whiner, and i strongly recommend you to "try" instead =)
The matchup changed so much since ... Humans used to play Rifle caster, and the time we could win some series was when Undead would only play tri hero mass ghoul frenzy, but then they discovered aboms&destros and all the Humans started losing more and more so we had to find new stuff. During the ESWC Lucifer won he was untouchable in this matchup, and the other top Undeads were also doing really good vs Human ( there was a racewar held in asia where Undead crushed Human ), but then some Humans started playing mass towers & siege units and we did a lot better than with regular units so we switched to it.
Most recently just when i thought every strategies of the patch have been exploited and Human has a huge advantage over Undead some Undeads surprised me with alot of good strategies including spiders and perfectly timed attacks and i lost a whole set of games to it, aswell as vs FoV's style which include geting a lot of mercenaries and even stealing those i'm supposed to buy to cripple my expanding.
I didn't complain about nuke but if some Humans did i shall enlighten you about the situation being : archmage is the most valuable first hero for various reasons. Easier creeping, easier to set up and expo. So when DK could be 3 am will be 3 aswell, and with an expo, making him having late tech, when a mk1 comes and perhaps a pala1 ud heroes can already be much more leveled than the Human's, that's where the nuking part is really annoying and that is also why Human relies more on having towers at this point instead of geting outnuked outside their base they need to gather a bigger army and try to win with it.
I dont think Human have that weak units, but i think vs Undead it's THE best unit :) i tried making only 3 or 4 towers per base in PGL and i went 0/4 vs Sweet and 1/4 vs FoV, 15 gargs with 1/0 upgrade attacked my main which had 4 towers and broke in so easily then i lost all paesants , archmage etc etc!
Maybe u should try to review ur view of the game, watch replays or matches of the top Undeads crushing some Humans and do what they did with a good mindset not filled with imba thoughts and believe me u will enjoy the game more than ever.
Iam an experienced whiner, and i strongly recommend you to "try" instead =)
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I dont have the time make a respond on this now, since my mother is harassing me by throwing dreadlord sleep at me! But one thing I would just like to ask a professional about is: What to do vs first hero paladin harassing my accous at terenas stand? This is the worst thing in war 3 history. Its ridiculos when paladin reaches level 5.
Expect an answer on what u just wrote tomorrow. zZzzZz
Mum is my worst matchup.
Expect an answer on what u just wrote tomorrow. zZzzZz
Mum is my worst matchup.
+7 thumbs
creepjack him at every spot he creeps, paladin is not archmage, no elementals :)
then there is a lot of small details, like closing your base so that he cant enter in, buy a zepelin urself so u can put acos in it when he comes, make sure to make him use stafff every time so he cant be back before cooldown is out. Dont let him expo at any time, and if he does find a way to push it and cripple how much gold he acquired from it so that he cant outproduce u. I guess playing vs Hum vs Ud with paladin is kinda like a different matchup.
And most important check replays of the top players when the use it, there are replays of top players beating paladin with Undead, from my personnal point of view FoV is mostly good vs it. He beat Sky pretty hard in IEF final a while ago with some good stuff u should check that out.
then there is a lot of small details, like closing your base so that he cant enter in, buy a zepelin urself so u can put acos in it when he comes, make sure to make him use stafff every time so he cant be back before cooldown is out. Dont let him expo at any time, and if he does find a way to push it and cripple how much gold he acquired from it so that he cant outproduce u. I guess playing vs Hum vs Ud with paladin is kinda like a different matchup.
And most important check replays of the top players when the use it, there are replays of top players beating paladin with Undead, from my personnal point of view FoV is mostly good vs it. He beat Sky pretty hard in IEF final a while ago with some good stuff u should check that out.
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@FuRy
hahaha made me lol :DDDDDDD
hahaha made me lol :DDDDDDD
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@FuRy
haha :)
haha :)
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yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaa every race is balanced ud wins in team leagues and other races wins big tours sounds fair for me
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@ToD
We both kind of agree in that towers might be boring to face, and that undead heroes are powerfull since they in most cases gets to a higher level than the human player while he is hiding behind the towers.
You said that humans started to lose when undead started to making abos/dessis vs rifle/caster tactic. So ok, thats fine by me that you try to counter it in any ways. But did the human guys actually really tried something else. Have the top human guys even tried to play a game withouth fast expansion? Because withouth the fast exe, human hereoes could probably be at the same level as the undead heroes during the game. And at tier 3, why shouldnt humans be able to afford making units as every other race ín this game? Would be fun to see a human player just tech, perhaps a arcane tower but no more, and instead try to counter with units. Human got both good units and heroes, its just that it is more simple to tower up than going units.
"i tried making only 3 or 4 towers per base in PGL..."
Thats a good idea, atleast it forces the undead to stay away from your base before destro push. But since it does force the undead to stay away with ghouls for example, then the undead player gets no other option than making destros either. What options do UD have? Meat wagons? Unlike siege engines they die in a second and they do almost no damage at all. Pretty useless unit actually. And thats one weakness of ud race again, that they cant really make something new. Perhaps casters are possible to be used in some way. I mean, it took the orc players like one year of mass talons to realise that they could dispell it with spirit walkers. But i doubt there are some ud casters tactic that you can use vs human.
Fiends is a good choice vs human. I tried it much lately on the ladder and it works pretty well. But as soon as MK gain level 3 or something like that and the human starts to get copters/siege engines with attack air ability/dragonhawks and knights it get damn hard. Since i cant fight the air units with my destroyers. Oh well, i can early at t3 before the real HUGE mass appears but its damn hard since i have to deal with the towers at the same time to get rid of that expansion. And well, fiends vs knights and mk+pala is just... coil doesnt solve the problem at that time of the game.
And yes i will try, im gonna play atleast 50-70 ladder games this weekend and then im gonna report back on how it worked out.
We both kind of agree in that towers might be boring to face, and that undead heroes are powerfull since they in most cases gets to a higher level than the human player while he is hiding behind the towers.
You said that humans started to lose when undead started to making abos/dessis vs rifle/caster tactic. So ok, thats fine by me that you try to counter it in any ways. But did the human guys actually really tried something else. Have the top human guys even tried to play a game withouth fast expansion? Because withouth the fast exe, human hereoes could probably be at the same level as the undead heroes during the game. And at tier 3, why shouldnt humans be able to afford making units as every other race ín this game? Would be fun to see a human player just tech, perhaps a arcane tower but no more, and instead try to counter with units. Human got both good units and heroes, its just that it is more simple to tower up than going units.
"i tried making only 3 or 4 towers per base in PGL..."
Thats a good idea, atleast it forces the undead to stay away from your base before destro push. But since it does force the undead to stay away with ghouls for example, then the undead player gets no other option than making destros either. What options do UD have? Meat wagons? Unlike siege engines they die in a second and they do almost no damage at all. Pretty useless unit actually. And thats one weakness of ud race again, that they cant really make something new. Perhaps casters are possible to be used in some way. I mean, it took the orc players like one year of mass talons to realise that they could dispell it with spirit walkers. But i doubt there are some ud casters tactic that you can use vs human.
Fiends is a good choice vs human. I tried it much lately on the ladder and it works pretty well. But as soon as MK gain level 3 or something like that and the human starts to get copters/siege engines with attack air ability/dragonhawks and knights it get damn hard. Since i cant fight the air units with my destroyers. Oh well, i can early at t3 before the real HUGE mass appears but its damn hard since i have to deal with the towers at the same time to get rid of that expansion. And well, fiends vs knights and mk+pala is just... coil doesnt solve the problem at that time of the game.
And yes i will try, im gonna play atleast 50-70 ladder games this weekend and then im gonna report back on how it worked out.
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@FuRy
Good idea with just having 1 gargoyle and kill the critters. Im sure i can make the pala gtfo my base if i try this now. Atleast until he hits level 5 when he dont have to be close to the accous anymore to kill them. So at that time blocking wont solve the problem.
Good idea with just having 1 gargoyle and kill the critters. Im sure i can make the pala gtfo my base if i try this now. Atleast until he hits level 5 when he dont have to be close to the accous anymore to kill them. So at that time blocking wont solve the problem.
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You can also cut down a few trees and put your acolytes there. When you choose the right spot to do it, paladin won't fit in. A bit like how night elfs protect their wisps from blade master by placing them on trees that are closely surrounded by 2 other trees.
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"Have the top human guys even tried to play a game withouth fast expansion?"
I think we have, or at least I have for hundreds of games and i figured it's a lot harder, i used to like going 1 base on TR with 3 hero and a lot of creeping and was really good at it, i played a very long game vs FoV in IEST with high level heroes but in the end i lost and that's when i sort of gave with this style. Because with equal pop and heroes the Ud wins i think, so outproducing the Undead is the only option left.
"Fiends is a good choice vs human. I tried it much lately on the ladder and it works pretty well. But as soon as MK gain level 3 or something like that and the human starts to get copters/siege engines with attack air ability/dragonhawks and knights it get damn hard"
the whole point with fiends is to push really fast, TED is the best fiend user i have faced, his timings are extraordinary good and i always struggle really much beating him in practice, you might wanna check out his replays vs Human, i went 1/1 vs him in IEF but in the game i won i was so close to lose, the one i lost i was owned :)
I think we have, or at least I have for hundreds of games and i figured it's a lot harder, i used to like going 1 base on TR with 3 hero and a lot of creeping and was really good at it, i played a very long game vs FoV in IEST with high level heroes but in the end i lost and that's when i sort of gave with this style. Because with equal pop and heroes the Ud wins i think, so outproducing the Undead is the only option left.
"Fiends is a good choice vs human. I tried it much lately on the ladder and it works pretty well. But as soon as MK gain level 3 or something like that and the human starts to get copters/siege engines with attack air ability/dragonhawks and knights it get damn hard"
the whole point with fiends is to push really fast, TED is the best fiend user i have faced, his timings are extraordinary good and i always struggle really much beating him in practice, you might wanna check out his replays vs Human, i went 1/1 vs him in IEF but in the game i won i was so close to lose, the one i lost i was owned :)