Forum > Warcraft III
Can Europeans suceed?
For an "upcoming" article.
What do you guys think are the obstacles to European players suceeding. Is it a case of Asian players just being better, or is it a case of Europeans just being worse?
Will we see more top level europeans in the future yes/no. If not why not?
Posted: 2008-05-16 21:11:30
Comments
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Nah, his "knowledge" is only about what koreans won and ignoring all other victories from europeans.
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@-AceZ-
apm is just one example. There are a lot of other factors like tactics, reaction speed, you name it. And you can't compare watching movies to playing games. There's a difference between being active and being passive. Look up any definition of sport and it will match esports.
Golf is a sport, motor racing is a sport, heck, even Snooker is a sport. It all requires physical skills.
apm is just one example. There are a lot of other factors like tactics, reaction speed, you name it. And you can't compare watching movies to playing games. There's a difference between being active and being passive. Look up any definition of sport and it will match esports.
Golf is a sport, motor racing is a sport, heck, even Snooker is a sport. It all requires physical skills.
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@-AceZ-
I told you already :). Just it's not a sport in the first and basic meaning of it. the e-SPORT thing is used in an altered pejorative form.
it's called a 'sport' not because you exercises your muscles or u sweat but because it involves a lot more aspects to it. Competitity, friendship, same goals, same dream, no race barrier, no age, no cultural differences. That's what i think anyway.
I told you already :). Just it's not a sport in the first and basic meaning of it. the e-SPORT thing is used in an altered pejorative form.
it's called a 'sport' not because you exercises your muscles or u sweat but because it involves a lot more aspects to it. Competitity, friendship, same goals, same dream, no race barrier, no age, no cultural differences. That's what i think anyway.
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haha "TheTormented", a random new account with a Korean flag. Now who could that be?:D
Maly, bds or whatever moderator there is, why don't you just end this charade? We had enough "fun" with those 1-2 retards with 10 accs thumbing themselves up and acting all smart with the same unfounded arguments over and over. "Moon > all ==> Europe sucks, Grubby sucks, Tod sucks".
Maly, bds or whatever moderator there is, why don't you just end this charade? We had enough "fun" with those 1-2 retards with 10 accs thumbing themselves up and acting all smart with the same unfounded arguments over and over. "Moon > all ==> Europe sucks, Grubby sucks, Tod sucks".
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"Master Talons Strategy: Jae Ho is known for not creating, but popularizing and improving this strategy against Orc by using Firelord or Tinker as 3rd-Hero. He used this strategy to defeat Manuel "Grubby" Schenkhuizen many times. "
HAhaha this made my day!
You are so pathetic you just don't deserve to live!
HAhaha this made my day!
You are so pathetic you just don't deserve to live!
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well it's also funny to see an idiot like you posting here ...the person to whom you look up said your knowledge is very limited (2006) and that he doesn't care about you ..so maybe the post above was a in your words pwnage or selfown
also it's dumb to name this conversation/discussion/arguement/whatever a pwnage, it's not a pwnage just because mlw writes in a very self satisfied way and in some cases ignorant way even if he was/is right in this case we argued about ... but it's ok if you think it's always a pwnage if somebody is right and the other one not...maybe you should get a life
anyway i think you don't know any other words and you are just a stupid fanboy/imitator or whatever
so hf and good trolling for the future
also it's dumb to name this conversation/discussion/arguement/whatever a pwnage, it's not a pwnage just because mlw writes in a very self satisfied way and in some cases ignorant way even if he was/is right in this case we argued about ... but it's ok if you think it's always a pwnage if somebody is right and the other one not...maybe you should get a life
anyway i think you don't know any other words and you are just a stupid fanboy/imitator or whatever
so hf and good trolling for the future
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its funny how mlw congratulates himself.
Well done you fucking douchebag, its pretty much the equivalent of masturbating and saying you had sex with a girl ... or in your case, a guy.
WP omarqureshi. (SEE I CONGRATULATED MYSELF WITHOUT ALIASING AS 50 OTHER PEOPLE)
Well done you fucking douchebag, its pretty much the equivalent of masturbating and saying you had sex with a girl ... or in your case, a guy.
WP omarqureshi. (SEE I CONGRATULATED MYSELF WITHOUT ALIASING AS 50 OTHER PEOPLE)
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By the name of the whole forum and community , I`d like to thank myself
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i think the social backround is also very important here as a few guys mentioned already ...just saying koreans are more talented is too easy i think
but it's true that they spent more time in training/studying their enemys but there again the social backround and the society is very important
also you can say germans/europeans are way more talented in football/handball/icehockey but that's not true in general, you must also look at the social backround =) football/soccer or icehockey are simply not as important as gaming in korea
gaming instead is part of their way of life and maybe of their tradition ... we can say esports is much more developed in korea than in europe and for me this is a reason why koreans have more success in gaming and why the level and the competition is much better in korea
it makes the practice much easier because it's easier to find people you can practice with
maybe they are also more talented for real time strategy games in general but your argumentation is way to simple because talent and character/nature are important for every sports but the environment and society is also very important in my opinion as important as the other things i mentioned above, to become a professional in the sport you perform and that's in our case esports and for esports korea or asia in general is much better because it's much more accepted than in europe =)
but it's true that they spent more time in training/studying their enemys but there again the social backround and the society is very important
also you can say germans/europeans are way more talented in football/handball/icehockey but that's not true in general, you must also look at the social backround =) football/soccer or icehockey are simply not as important as gaming in korea
gaming instead is part of their way of life and maybe of their tradition ... we can say esports is much more developed in korea than in europe and for me this is a reason why koreans have more success in gaming and why the level and the competition is much better in korea
it makes the practice much easier because it's easier to find people you can practice with
maybe they are also more talented for real time strategy games in general but your argumentation is way to simple because talent and character/nature are important for every sports but the environment and society is also very important in my opinion as important as the other things i mentioned above, to become a professional in the sport you perform and that's in our case esports and for esports korea or asia in general is much better because it's much more accepted than in europe =)
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@Sirz
i think its not that hes dropped in lvl but its just that been one of the best everyone would watch ur replays over and over and over till they kno u inside out, furthermore others are improving as well. if grubby did wut infi and sky did with himself and moon then hed be able to beat any ne now
i think its not that hes dropped in lvl but its just that been one of the best everyone would watch ur replays over and over and over till they kno u inside out, furthermore others are improving as well. if grubby did wut infi and sky did with himself and moon then hed be able to beat any ne now
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I think it's ironic that you're a kind of person correcting everyone elses grammar after reading that comment of yours MLW :(
"Not anyone in here is a brainwashed Euro / Nubby fanboy."
"..but shut the fuck up and try to improve theirself against..."
"..easy to say Sentiment and Torment are accounts of me."
"..but your argumentation is way to simple because talent and.."
I've got grammar errors myself but I dont scan through the forum to correct them.
"Not anyone in here is a brainwashed Euro / Nubby fanboy."
"..but shut the fuck up and try to improve theirself against..."
"..easy to say Sentiment and Torment are accounts of me."
"..but your argumentation is way to simple because talent and.."
I've got grammar errors myself but I dont scan through the forum to correct them.
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@TheTormented
he isn't even korean, just a Korea fanboy. But hey, I guess you'd like it if there was another guy with 10 different accounts going around making fun of the Koreans like Boon, Losifer, Suxiria, Losers cause they all suck compared to the Chinese and will never be on the same level as top chinese gamers...
so whether you're MLW or not, all people sharing his retarded opinion on sportsmanship will be treated like him, as part of the disco-senti-MLW entity. You WILL get thumbed down and ultimately banned.
he isn't even korean, just a Korea fanboy. But hey, I guess you'd like it if there was another guy with 10 different accounts going around making fun of the Koreans like Boon, Losifer, Suxiria, Losers cause they all suck compared to the Chinese and will never be on the same level as top chinese gamers...
so whether you're MLW or not, all people sharing his retarded opinion on sportsmanship will be treated like him, as part of the disco-senti-MLW entity. You WILL get thumbed down and ultimately banned.
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@TheTormented
FunPlayer; Sounds like you make out your opinions just to disagree with MLW. I don't think there's any doubt that the Korean's has by far the best players, and has had that since the beginning of the birth of wc3. They did not prove that until some seasons ago when they started to appear in Wc3l. It's a shame that you give them less credit based upon your dissatisfaction of another person(MLW).
FunPlayer; Sounds like you make out your opinions just to disagree with MLW. I don't think there's any doubt that the Korean's has by far the best players, and has had that since the beginning of the birth of wc3. They did not prove that until some seasons ago when they started to appear in Wc3l. It's a shame that you give them less credit based upon your dissatisfaction of another person(MLW).
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@TheTormented
ttguy - first person on SK forums to speak close to the truth, and not get thumbed down at the sight of his name?
ttguy - first person on SK forums to speak close to the truth, and not get thumbed down at the sight of his name?
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@TheTormented
It's actually 100% truth! People actually begin to hate the koreans just because of those social invalids! That quite funny, cuz the are always trying to prove how superior the koreans are, when no one is denying it and the effect is the opposite!
Take this thread as an example. The title itself says that europeans are somehow worse than the koreans and here comes the mystery man with a fake nationality, no name and empty head talking crap!
It's actually 100% truth! People actually begin to hate the koreans just because of those social invalids! That quite funny, cuz the are always trying to prove how superior the koreans are, when no one is denying it and the effect is the opposite!
Take this thread as an example. The title itself says that europeans are somehow worse than the koreans and here comes the mystery man with a fake nationality, no name and empty head talking crap!
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@Zechs
It's only in November and January that it's that dark in Sweden, atm it's very nice weather. In Sweden almost everyone play video and computer games and a normal family might have 3 computers and several consoles. Different countries have different cultures, the interesting question to ask is why is it that gaming is so big in Sweden e.g.? It's probably due to the fact that we like new technology and are fast to embrace it. And when you've established a winning tradition in any aspect whether it's sports or some other field of competition it tends to live on.
It's only in November and January that it's that dark in Sweden, atm it's very nice weather. In Sweden almost everyone play video and computer games and a normal family might have 3 computers and several consoles. Different countries have different cultures, the interesting question to ask is why is it that gaming is so big in Sweden e.g.? It's probably due to the fact that we like new technology and are fast to embrace it. And when you've established a winning tradition in any aspect whether it's sports or some other field of competition it tends to live on.
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@Zechs
the single biggest reason why sweden is (was? don't follow cs) dominant in counterstrike is because sweden probably has the best internet in europe from what I have heard. With nearly everyone being able to practice with lan pings from home. Wich is ofcourse a huge advantage when all the big tournaments are played on lan.
the single biggest reason why sweden is (was? don't follow cs) dominant in counterstrike is because sweden probably has the best internet in europe from what I have heard. With nearly everyone being able to practice with lan pings from home. Wich is ofcourse a huge advantage when all the big tournaments are played on lan.
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Europe is quite strong in most of the traditional sports. If we look into this, we can see that when a sport has aroused enough attention from the public and get well sponsorship in Europe, people start scientific and systematic study on it. We all know that European countries are well advanced in systematic training method, after-match relief, diet study of the athletes or even some psychological help to make them relax before matches. As a matter of tradition, Asian athletes usually trains harder than the European ones. It's those scientific and expertise preference of the European countries that make your athletes better in traditional sports. This also explains why Asian athletes make great progress when they start to adopt and study those methods as well. But if we look into the gaming, we can see that until now little effort has been made regarding those expertise studies, which makes hard training the only decisive factor.
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Agree with MLW here. Mentality is desicive in major tournaments..
Take last years ESWC as an example; Creo's micro probably slightly superiour to Soju's, even owning him first. The it comes down to the grand final and Creo couldnt handle the pressure, so he lost, with clear traces of nervousness in his play.
Moon's got a perfect combination of good mentality, the ability to adapt perfectly, and very, very good micro. (You could also say inventor, as moon has invented several of the today's strategies now known as "cookie-cutter" strategies.)
Take last years ESWC as an example; Creo's micro probably slightly superiour to Soju's, even owning him first. The it comes down to the grand final and Creo couldnt handle the pressure, so he lost, with clear traces of nervousness in his play.
Moon's got a perfect combination of good mentality, the ability to adapt perfectly, and very, very good micro. (You could also say inventor, as moon has invented several of the today's strategies now known as "cookie-cutter" strategies.)
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@ttguy
Well what you talked about mentality is absolutely true but is slightly off the topic. This topical is about what makes the difference in their achievements between European and Asian players. The difference in mentality is something more of individual I think. Or unless you can prove that Asian players are usually mentally stronger than the European ones, where I won't encourage you to venture into. :)
Well what you talked about mentality is absolutely true but is slightly off the topic. This topical is about what makes the difference in their achievements between European and Asian players. The difference in mentality is something more of individual I think. Or unless you can prove that Asian players are usually mentally stronger than the European ones, where I won't encourage you to venture into. :)
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well mlw having around 20 posts in this threat mostly consisting of "nubby sucks" "moon rocks" and ill just quote you
"I have a statistic for ANY player Moon encountered, so don't try to fool me."
speaks for itself i think.
oh and i dont get it, whats up with your hating towars grubby and grubby fans?
your a moon fan, so?
serious, lets take this as an example.
a lot unknown-who-gives-a-shit football teams even has fans, so?
i do not agree that grubby sucks, but if he did, why the fuck do you have a problem with his fans? their just supporting him like your supporting moon.
yeah grubby had a pretty bad period, but hes slowly regaining it, and it seems that moon is getting a bad period now, but who knows.
yet you always come up with excuses for moon.
like you know, grubby wins, you say nothing.
grubby loses, you say "nubby gets pwnt by low nelf"
moon wins, you say "moon raped him best player ever ehhehe ei update his player list now"
moon loses, "bad luck, he didnt play as he could, he didnt take it serious, prize pool to low etc."
where the fuck is the logic?
"I have a statistic for ANY player Moon encountered, so don't try to fool me."
speaks for itself i think.
oh and i dont get it, whats up with your hating towars grubby and grubby fans?
your a moon fan, so?
serious, lets take this as an example.
a lot unknown-who-gives-a-shit football teams even has fans, so?
i do not agree that grubby sucks, but if he did, why the fuck do you have a problem with his fans? their just supporting him like your supporting moon.
yeah grubby had a pretty bad period, but hes slowly regaining it, and it seems that moon is getting a bad period now, but who knows.
yet you always come up with excuses for moon.
like you know, grubby wins, you say nothing.
grubby loses, you say "nubby gets pwnt by low nelf"
moon wins, you say "moon raped him best player ever ehhehe ei update his player list now"
moon loses, "bad luck, he didnt play as he could, he didnt take it serious, prize pool to low etc."
where the fuck is the logic?
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@revail
yeah wc3 is game i agree, but it jsut doesnt make sense to me, if wc3 is just a hobby and fun, how come you have to act like you do.
anyway stew is worse, but he claimed that he has such a nice life and only post 6 message per week so i wouldnt bother callin for him. anyway i dont really care if your hating on a person, just didnt make much sense to me why your hating him.
yeah wc3 is game i agree, but it jsut doesnt make sense to me, if wc3 is just a hobby and fun, how come you have to act like you do.
anyway stew is worse, but he claimed that he has such a nice life and only post 6 message per week so i wouldnt bother callin for him. anyway i dont really care if your hating on a person, just didnt make much sense to me why your hating him.
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@ttguy
I said that Creo's micro was SLIGHTLY superiour at the time. I still think that, and you'd think so too if you weren't such a Korean asslicker. One of Creo's strenghts was indeed adapting very well to strategies, but that combined with extraordinary micro. You think that someone can achieve 2nd place ESWC, 1st at Blizzcon, then winning the WCG, without the micro?
I said that Creo's micro was SLIGHTLY superiour at the time. I still think that, and you'd think so too if you weren't such a Korean asslicker. One of Creo's strenghts was indeed adapting very well to strategies, but that combined with extraordinary micro. You think that someone can achieve 2nd place ESWC, 1st at Blizzcon, then winning the WCG, without the micro?