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1.22 Patch Discussion Thread/new
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Posted: 2008-04-02 01:17:44
Comments
+1 thumbs 
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@jeromederbuckel
do i sense some irony there? :P
do i sense some irony there? :P
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+1 thumbs
@NAtZ
Last year ne's won 20 tournaments while Orcs won 5, Humans won 5, Undead 2... Currently they have been playing strats like warden mass merc vs orc and other stuff, especially at racewars, this and the fact that they didn't have their best players in the team led to this result. It's not that NE is imposible to beat, it's just they have a head start vs every other race, and no real weakness except low hp buildigns and wisps, however if you try to abuse these 2 you are either a "lame ud garg masser", "lame/gay base racing hu/orc", why do you think most ne's weakest match-up is mirror? Because it's more easier to play against the other races, and doesn't go that well when the other guy has the same advantages as you.
Last year ne's won 20 tournaments while Orcs won 5, Humans won 5, Undead 2... Currently they have been playing strats like warden mass merc vs orc and other stuff, especially at racewars, this and the fact that they didn't have their best players in the team led to this result. It's not that NE is imposible to beat, it's just they have a head start vs every other race, and no real weakness except low hp buildigns and wisps, however if you try to abuse these 2 you are either a "lame ud garg masser", "lame/gay base racing hu/orc", why do you think most ne's weakest match-up is mirror? Because it's more easier to play against the other races, and doesn't go that well when the other guy has the same advantages as you.
-1 thumbs
@NAtZ
Okay, who were those 20 NE who wont those tournaments?? and who are those most NE's whose weakest match up is mirror? are you referring to Remind perhaps?, Soju? or perhaps Winners?, or perhaps Lyc???
I am pretty much sure in all your theory you refer to only one NE and that is Moon. Moon won most of those tournaments and Moon weakest match up is NE. The rest of NE's mirror match up is NOT! their weakest m.u.
as far as it goes Moon and why he won so many tourneys, it's because he is THAT damn good. He isn't called the 5-th race for no reason. NO other NE has even came close to beat his record or even score nearly as equal as he did. If he wouldn't have played (let's say he took a brake) NE wouldn't have won not even 3/4 of those 20 tournaments you mention.
Look for example at RaceWar.. No Moon, NE came last.
Now my friend, less bias and more logic.
Okay, who were those 20 NE who wont those tournaments?? and who are those most NE's whose weakest match up is mirror? are you referring to Remind perhaps?, Soju? or perhaps Winners?, or perhaps Lyc???
I am pretty much sure in all your theory you refer to only one NE and that is Moon. Moon won most of those tournaments and Moon weakest match up is NE. The rest of NE's mirror match up is NOT! their weakest m.u.
as far as it goes Moon and why he won so many tourneys, it's because he is THAT damn good. He isn't called the 5-th race for no reason. NO other NE has even came close to beat his record or even score nearly as equal as he did. If he wouldn't have played (let's say he took a brake) NE wouldn't have won not even 3/4 of those 20 tournaments you mention.
Look for example at RaceWar.. No Moon, NE came last.
Now my friend, less bias and more logic.
+3 thumbs
@NAtZ
Night Elf - 387,054$ ($218,685) without Moon.
So the "crap" NE (ie. not the 5th race) still won twice as much vs all races apart from Human who can tower.
Human - 155,075$
(33,50% from ToD)
Undead - 107,510$
(24.09% from FoV)
Orc - 108,687$
(42,71% from Lyn)
In 2008 Lyn has only won tournaments he beat mass UD and that amazing win vs Moon.
Seems to happen once every couple years an ORC beats Moon, just like an UD beats Lyn.
Night Elf - 387,054$ ($218,685) without Moon.
So the "crap" NE (ie. not the 5th race) still won twice as much vs all races apart from Human who can tower.
Human - 155,075$
(33,50% from ToD)
Undead - 107,510$
(24.09% from FoV)
Orc - 108,687$
(42,71% from Lyn)
In 2008 Lyn has only won tournaments he beat mass UD and that amazing win vs Moon.
Seems to happen once every couple years an ORC beats Moon, just like an UD beats Lyn.
+3 thumbs
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@NAtZ
"elf just had the best players in 2007".
That's your answer to everything isn't it? elf wins because they have the best players, while if other races win it's because the race is imba?
"elf just had the best players in 2007".
That's your answer to everything isn't it? elf wins because they have the best players, while if other races win it's because the race is imba?
+0 thumbs
@NAtZ
please stop embarrassing yourselves vbadgirl and funplayer (yes I know it's hard for your brains to comprehend), and go get a room. You two are obviously made for each other. Where else do we find two people with such similar stupidity?
please stop embarrassing yourselves vbadgirl and funplayer (yes I know it's hard for your brains to comprehend), and go get a room. You two are obviously made for each other. Where else do we find two people with such similar stupidity?
+3 thumbs
cant understand the negative comments, looks like a good patch to me:
NE staff nerved
NE orb nerved = DH nerved
NE dryads nerved (more xp)
HU towers nerved
UD expansion ... easier
blizzard was smart to only change few things, "big" patches can easily be a desaster.
seems like this could work out well, but it will take month really judge the new balance.
NE staff nerved
NE orb nerved = DH nerved
NE dryads nerved (more xp)
HU towers nerved
UD expansion ... easier
blizzard was smart to only change few things, "big" patches can easily be a desaster.
seems like this could work out well, but it will take month really judge the new balance.
+1 thumbs
+1 thumbs
I agree with you the patch might turn out to be really effective. On the other hand we have no new heros or major changes lot of people were expecting. Do not forget karune mentioned that this is not the last patch but only the first part of one big patch which has been split in order to release something to satisfy the community.
+1 thumbs
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@NAtZ
I don't remember having often agreed with vbadgirl, but I mean, in this case you can't deny the evidences, and yes, the end of 2007 and the beginning of 2008 showed another perspective of how balance really is.
To lunarydz, I do not only think so, I have proofs of it, unlike you.
I don't remember having often agreed with vbadgirl, but I mean, in this case you can't deny the evidences, and yes, the end of 2007 and the beginning of 2008 showed another perspective of how balance really is.
To lunarydz, I do not only think so, I have proofs of it, unlike you.
+1 thumbs
+1 thumbs
@WyRmiE
first nerf orb of corruption and/or orb of lighting, then YOU talk.
first nerf orb of corruption and/or orb of lighting, then YOU talk.
+3 thumbs
The patch aint really that bad. I guess i lose about 1/1000 games due to the changes they've fixed now. Thats better than nothing. Blizzard wasted all their time on 1 April joke instead of patch ^_^
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@NAtZ
The evidence is from
http://www.gotfrag.com/war/story/41059/
This lists all prize winnings from 2008 broken down by player / race / country etc.
The point of imbalance means that you win more often. Even 10% is a big difference but NE win far more often than that overall.
Incidently the new patch wont fix the imbalance but it may even out results more. Why? UD will be able to beat NE and HU more. This means NE can be knocked out earlier in tournaments so more wins for ORC since little was done to fix this imbalance. So the new patch will boost UD and ORC results. Lucky HUMAN still have imba gryphons vs ORC and NE still have imba dotts vs ORC so that ORC wont be too strong.
The evidence is from
http://www.gotfrag.com/war/story/41059/
This lists all prize winnings from 2008 broken down by player / race / country etc.
The point of imbalance means that you win more often. Even 10% is a big difference but NE win far more often than that overall.
Incidently the new patch wont fix the imbalance but it may even out results more. Why? UD will be able to beat NE and HU more. This means NE can be knocked out earlier in tournaments so more wins for ORC since little was done to fix this imbalance. So the new patch will boost UD and ORC results. Lucky HUMAN still have imba gryphons vs ORC and NE still have imba dotts vs ORC so that ORC wont be too strong.
+1 thumbs
-1 thumbs
@NAtZ
unfortunately, if you look at the past 6 months, elf has a completely other position, with only moon winning something decent. Now, if you wanna release a patch, you will look at what happened early, when playing styles were so that other races were unable to compete with elves, or at what happened lately, where the imbalance seemed to take another shape, but with all the past experiences, which means some stuff that has been done doesn't work that good anymore if the other races' players play another way?
However, I think winning a tournament, therefore a price money depends on a lot of things, such as brackets combined with the balance in specific match ups and also on the playing style of a specific opponent, and taking the whole statistics is definitely a better indicator, with for the very top level, the latest race war... without moon!
unfortunately, if you look at the past 6 months, elf has a completely other position, with only moon winning something decent. Now, if you wanna release a patch, you will look at what happened early, when playing styles were so that other races were unable to compete with elves, or at what happened lately, where the imbalance seemed to take another shape, but with all the past experiences, which means some stuff that has been done doesn't work that good anymore if the other races' players play another way?
However, I think winning a tournament, therefore a price money depends on a lot of things, such as brackets combined with the balance in specific match ups and also on the playing style of a specific opponent, and taking the whole statistics is definitely a better indicator, with for the very top level, the latest race war... without moon!
-1 thumbs
@NAtZ
contrail, you talk about 10% imbalance. But tournaments are won by players, win% doesn't actually matter there or else we'd have to nerf Moon. As you said, tournaments are decided by luck, coincidence, brackets, maps etc. You could also say orc imbalance vs Undead made elf win all the tournaments cause usually all good undeads that would enjoy high chances of taking out elf players lose vs Orcs, and ofc Tod, Sky and Infi also took out any Undead without a problemin 2007.
If you think 10% imbalance is tough, just look at the Udvself and OrcvsUd stats. None of this got fixed. What matters for balance are the overall results, not who is winning a tournament. And overall results say elf is currently the weakest race (disclaimer).
contrail, you talk about 10% imbalance. But tournaments are won by players, win% doesn't actually matter there or else we'd have to nerf Moon. As you said, tournaments are decided by luck, coincidence, brackets, maps etc. You could also say orc imbalance vs Undead made elf win all the tournaments cause usually all good undeads that would enjoy high chances of taking out elf players lose vs Orcs, and ofc Tod, Sky and Infi also took out any Undead without a problemin 2007.
If you think 10% imbalance is tough, just look at the Udvself and OrcvsUd stats. None of this got fixed. What matters for balance are the overall results, not who is winning a tournament. And overall results say elf is currently the weakest race (disclaimer).
-2 thumbs
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