Forum > Warcraft III
The solution to wc3 imbalance.
To fix wc3 let's have a look at sk-gaming's statistics, what do they tell us?
Top 3 most imba matchups:
1) Orc vs Undead 61%
2) Undead vs Elf 59%
3) Undead vs Human 55%
Undead appears in the 3 most imba matchups, lets remove Undead and the highest percentage in win will be Orc vs human 53% to 47%. Thats pretty decent. ok god bless me for my heaven insight and let's do it! no more karune needed, no more towerpowernerf cries, only BALANCE remains!!!!!
Posted: 2008-03-31 16:21:47
Comments
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+5 thumbs 
gtfo.
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I agree with iZi!
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I don`t like ud aswell , but they make Elves feel what being the underpowered race means and that makes me happy , so ur idea is just stupid :)
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@Sir_J
don't people tire of saying this?
don't people tire of saying this?
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Well actually the only problem in hu vs ud matchup is that the result of the game only depends on the ability of the human to rise his expansion.
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@iYs-NameleSs
no , he meant its about how faster the undead will get the destroyers
no , he meant its about how faster the undead will get the destroyers
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Why do people keep talking about imbalance. I'm orc and i dislike undead so much (idk why even though the winning % is so high) , but i would leave ud in the game, for after one evil is gone , another one will come after it. Get serious in those forums , and stop bitching about imbalance. Solutions to your problems: train harder, use new strategies, or just change race.
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i mean, why not? sc got only 3 races too, its a lot easier to create a balance between 3 races than between 4 races...
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If you look close, 61% 59% and 55% is more closer to 50% than 100% .. so its not really "that imbalanced".
WarCraft need changes, but its not like "very very imbalanced game" its more about the players, everyone has his best and worst MU.
And again, we have the MAPS, who is the most important thing. Im sure if we had 4-5 maps every year like StarCraft Korean leagues, the numbers will change a lot, and it wont be "that imbalanced"
WarCraft need changes, but its not like "very very imbalanced game" its more about the players, everyone has his best and worst MU.
And again, we have the MAPS, who is the most important thing. Im sure if we had 4-5 maps every year like StarCraft Korean leagues, the numbers will change a lot, and it wont be "that imbalanced"
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You're wrong. Remember most tournaments play with the bo3 format. The percentages are about a single match, winning the bo3 however is a much harder task. For example in the case of Orc vs Undead this yields a 66.23% to 33.77%. Which means Orcs win TWICE as much bo3's as undeads do in their encounter. If this arent tough numbers, then you have a very broad interpretation of 'balance'.
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@iZi
i agree so much with you kayzer. the main thing that makes the difference are the players!
sure every race got different units with different hp/mana/dmg/armor/skills etc. but in the end a smart player can always take a victory. its well known that u arent allowed to make just a few faults on a high lvl vs certain races but hey thats life.
removing one race wouldnt help at all i think. thats just bs... ppl will come up with another race to be imba and would like it to be removed also. get a clue...
what r u mkaing ur statistics of btw? its completely bs to use just a few games on the pro level to make this statictics meaningful. tbh we can find a change in strategies and players that dominate every here and there. maps are a more important factor imo - and to talk about maps, i think every race has stronger and weaker maps.
i remember certain mus to be considered imba - hu vs ud for a while, before th000 started mk or pally first and now i cant see a big difference in percentage of winning overall (ok ok i didnt make statistics but it looks like both races are still complaining a bit so its almost even - the last thing depends on players (mind set, micro, macro, adaption,training ,will to win, daily form)
as of yet and even in future there will be people that whine. i think its naturally to do that, one of the biggest flaws(a lot of whining and no respect for other players) and also their strenght (games/matchup keep changing in things of strategy and are frequently discussed in forums). these forums are a good proof to that. progamer A wins pg B --> conclusion: the race of A must be imba (if its no mirror ofc)
if orc wins with raiders sw tc vs elf, nerf orc! if elf wins with talons over orc, nerf elf! if hu wins with towers, nerf hu! if ud wins with dessy, nerf ud!
endless story, so from my point of view id say wc3 is the most balanced rts game if there wouldnt be starcraft!!
i agree so much with you kayzer. the main thing that makes the difference are the players!
sure every race got different units with different hp/mana/dmg/armor/skills etc. but in the end a smart player can always take a victory. its well known that u arent allowed to make just a few faults on a high lvl vs certain races but hey thats life.
removing one race wouldnt help at all i think. thats just bs... ppl will come up with another race to be imba and would like it to be removed also. get a clue...
what r u mkaing ur statistics of btw? its completely bs to use just a few games on the pro level to make this statictics meaningful. tbh we can find a change in strategies and players that dominate every here and there. maps are a more important factor imo - and to talk about maps, i think every race has stronger and weaker maps.
i remember certain mus to be considered imba - hu vs ud for a while, before th000 started mk or pally first and now i cant see a big difference in percentage of winning overall (ok ok i didnt make statistics but it looks like both races are still complaining a bit so its almost even - the last thing depends on players (mind set, micro, macro, adaption,training ,will to win, daily form)
as of yet and even in future there will be people that whine. i think its naturally to do that, one of the biggest flaws(a lot of whining and no respect for other players) and also their strenght (games/matchup keep changing in things of strategy and are frequently discussed in forums). these forums are a good proof to that. progamer A wins pg B --> conclusion: the race of A must be imba (if its no mirror ofc)
if orc wins with raiders sw tc vs elf, nerf orc! if elf wins with talons over orc, nerf elf! if hu wins with towers, nerf hu! if ud wins with dessy, nerf ud!
endless story, so from my point of view id say wc3 is the most balanced rts game if there wouldnt be starcraft!!
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@iZi
i agree witl Wolvi , but you know in SC there is almost no luck - u don`t get items , the spawn point hardly matters , your units do a specific dmg (its not like 20-65 , its 10 , 15) and you know that in wc3 all these things can solve the whole game , so sometimes when the opposite race gets the right items it needs it starts to get "imba"
i agree witl Wolvi , but you know in SC there is almost no luck - u don`t get items , the spawn point hardly matters , your units do a specific dmg (its not like 20-65 , its 10 , 15) and you know that in wc3 all these things can solve the whole game , so sometimes when the opposite race gets the right items it needs it starts to get "imba"
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@iZi
well u have a lot more units that die much faster (compare 1 footmen vs 1 grunt AND 1 marine vs 2 lings).
well in order to that spell "plague" - you have to "tech" a lot and use a big amoung of your vespin gas. and the unit casting it is pretty easy to kill. compared to possesion form banshee its still not THAT imba imo)
toss got a lot of shield anyways, so it would be pretty useful vs terrans only (or zerg mirror), maybe vs some expensive mass hp units.
i think SC is just faster than wc3 (if u dont count infi vs like @ turtle as common game :)
well u have a lot more units that die much faster (compare 1 footmen vs 1 grunt AND 1 marine vs 2 lings).
well in order to that spell "plague" - you have to "tech" a lot and use a big amoung of your vespin gas. and the unit casting it is pretty easy to kill. compared to possesion form banshee its still not THAT imba imo)
toss got a lot of shield anyways, so it would be pretty useful vs terrans only (or zerg mirror), maybe vs some expensive mass hp units.
i think SC is just faster than wc3 (if u dont count infi vs like @ turtle as common game :)
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@iZi
learn to read pls
zerg got plague
terran got shock which actually pretty much pwns protoss
protoss got that nasty storm which pwns pretty hard
so i don`t really see the imba , as well as any luck involved (or any significant like finding exp tomes , auras , mana/hp pots etc)
learn to read pls
zerg got plague
terran got shock which actually pretty much pwns protoss
protoss got that nasty storm which pwns pretty hard
so i don`t really see the imba , as well as any luck involved (or any significant like finding exp tomes , auras , mana/hp pots etc)
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@iZi
-____- I wanted to replay to good-game...
-____- I wanted to replay to good-game...
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Each race needs to evolve, to renew the way it's played, and for that they need brilliant players who are able to create strats, like Moon for the elves and Sky for the humans.
Undeads haven't had such a player since Madfrog, and orc since Zacard, but these times Grubby and some other orcs like Focus, Who etc are renewing the way to play orc (e.g by going T3).
That's why undead is atm the race that looks the weakest one, and orcs have recently achieved some nice results.
Undeads haven't had such a player since Madfrog, and orc since Zacard, but these times Grubby and some other orcs like Focus, Who etc are renewing the way to play orc (e.g by going T3).
That's why undead is atm the race that looks the weakest one, and orcs have recently achieved some nice results.
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@iYs-NameleSs
Agree 100%, strats need to evolve and without players like MaDFroG, Zacard, and ALL old school of Korea, you got the same players doing the same thing EVERYTIME, thats the begin of "omg undead always lose to orc ($I%(@#)% orc imba".
If the Orc player does something, and the Undead KEEP doing the SAME everytime, he will lose.
Like i said, its all about players improving strats and keeping the game "live" with new stuff.
If you take a look on the SC Korean Scene you will see that NO ONES keep being "best" for 2-3 months, thats because SC got a LOT of possibles strats to do, and also EVERY NEW MAP makes the game change a lot, example, Terran not being able to close their ramp, so they have to care about Protoss early push, etc.
Anyway, who cares, like 70% of the people, Im waiting SC2 hoping of a new good RTS to challenge.
Agree 100%, strats need to evolve and without players like MaDFroG, Zacard, and ALL old school of Korea, you got the same players doing the same thing EVERYTIME, thats the begin of "omg undead always lose to orc ($I%(@#)% orc imba".
If the Orc player does something, and the Undead KEEP doing the SAME everytime, he will lose.
Like i said, its all about players improving strats and keeping the game "live" with new stuff.
If you take a look on the SC Korean Scene you will see that NO ONES keep being "best" for 2-3 months, thats because SC got a LOT of possibles strats to do, and also EVERY NEW MAP makes the game change a lot, example, Terran not being able to close their ramp, so they have to care about Protoss early push, etc.
Anyway, who cares, like 70% of the people, Im waiting SC2 hoping of a new good RTS to challenge.
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@iYs-NameleSs
cant agree more with Kayzer
tbh Im really TIRED of watching players doing the same shit EVERYGAME.
In the old Korean leagues or WEGs,they changed their strats in almost every match.One becuz they had better chance to win,one bcuz of the new maps every season.Therefore the game kept evolving,the fans kept being excited,kept lovin the game.
cant agree more with Kayzer
tbh Im really TIRED of watching players doing the same shit EVERYGAME.
In the old Korean leagues or WEGs,they changed their strats in almost every match.One becuz they had better chance to win,one bcuz of the new maps every season.Therefore the game kept evolving,the fans kept being excited,kept lovin the game.
+1 thumbs
@iZi
I wanted to reply to good-game , not to you ;/ just the site buggs
I wanted to reply to good-game , not to you ;/ just the site buggs
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@Fayspire
this is a part of the specific of the Undead race , how many strats that the undeads use involve the need of an expansion and how many of hu/elf require one.....
this is a part of the specific of the Undead race , how many strats that the undeads use involve the need of an expansion and how many of hu/elf require one.....
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kankergert xD
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Still dont get the thread title "The solution to wc3 imbalance"?!
Whats the point on looking on sk-stats. Come with ideas about what could make it more balanced instead.
Whats the point on looking on sk-stats. Come with ideas about what could make it more balanced instead.
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