To fix wc3 let's have a look at sk-gaming's statistics, what do they tell us?
Top 3 most imba matchups:
1) Orc vs Undead 61%
2) Undead vs Elf 59%
3) Undead vs Human 55%
Undead appears in the 3 most imba matchups, lets remove Undead and the highest percentage in win will be Orc vs human 53% to 47%. Thats pretty decent. ok god bless me for my heaven insight and let's do it! no more karune needed, no more towerpowernerf cries, only BALANCE remains!!!!!
Forum > Warcraft III
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+4 thumbs 
gtfo.
+7 thumbs
nah, just ban elf mirror and we will all be happy.
-1 thumbs
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+2 thumbs
I agree with iZi!
+7 thumbs
BAN UD ! best idea I ever saw on this forum !
+5 thumbs
Im ud but i want to kick my race out of this unbelievably unfair game.Kick dh. And i ll start to train my orc :D
+4 thumbs
I don`t like ud aswell , but they make Elves feel what being the underpowered race means and that makes me happy , so ur idea is just stupid :)
+5 thumbs
remove elf.
+4 thumbs
don't people tire of saying this?
+3 thumbs
nope, and its the truth 8(
+2 thumbs
It's never the truth. Nightelf isn't imba. Tell me what is imba and u will say 2 different things:
1 DH ( Orb also )
2 Dry + Bears
So if the imba things are kind of that just shut up. There is nothing imba on it u couldn't counter!
1 DH ( Orb also )
2 Dry + Bears
So if the imba things are kind of that just shut up. There is nothing imba on it u couldn't counter!
+1 thumbs
You have my respect for saying that in public.
+1 thumbs
what about talons + tri hero, aow creeping, elf can use almost every tavernhero because moonwells are just great, elf got an additional free expansion after their maintree is done with the goldmine (they never have to care about an expo, but they can make expos still pretty fast and everywhere on the map), they have wisps at certain points where its hard to kill them but they do a good scout work
+1 thumbs
yet all those racial strengths don't help vs Undead.
+1 thumbs
Talons are not imba anymore i think. Orcs know what to do right now. They could even tower the ne on t2, add some cattas and it should be gg. If a nelf does aowcreeping u can easiely tower too. The nelf has 1-2 archer and a hero. on ts for example it's np. moonwells.. well moonwells are empty by healing a hero with less mana. and to use the maintree for an expansion is not imba. orc and hu can do some distance mining till they got enough gold. and the point that the exp. would be very fast.. well orc can make t3 exp and hu has fastbuild. ud is weak =/ But in fact u can couter all this. And if u see a wisp.. well kill it?!
+1 thumbs
good luck towering an elf with BeM
+2 thumbs
Well ...1-2 Quilbeasts lvl1 and 1-2 Archer aren't that imba i think oO If u have 5-6 defend Footys it's np ^^
+3 thumbs
remove orc,noobelves,human and everything is just fine.Mass UD mirror ftw
+0 thumbs
Are you kidding me iZi? Rofl, Undead imba vs ne and hu yeah yeah
+3 thumbs
removing elf would be much smarter :)
+1 thumbs
its human>ud not ud>hu
-1 thumbs
Well actually the only problem in hu vs ud matchup is that the result of the game only depends on the ability of the human to rise his expansion.
+5 thumbs
you mean, to make towers?
+2 thumbs
no , he meant its about how faster the undead will get the destroyers
+2 thumbs
Why do people keep talking about imbalance. I'm orc and i dislike undead so much (idk why even though the winning % is so high) , but i would leave ud in the game, for after one evil is gone , another one will come after it. Get serious in those forums , and stop bitching about imbalance. Solutions to your problems: train harder, use new strategies, or just change race.
+2 thumbs
i mean, why not? sc got only 3 races too, its a lot easier to create a balance between 3 races than between 4 races...
+0 thumbs
switch to starcraft.
+4 thumbs
If you look close, 61% 59% and 55% is more closer to 50% than 100% .. so its not really "that imbalanced".
WarCraft need changes, but its not like "very very imbalanced game" its more about the players, everyone has his best and worst MU.
And again, we have the MAPS, who is the most important thing. Im sure if we had 4-5 maps every year like StarCraft Korean leagues, the numbers will change a lot, and it wont be "that imbalanced"
WarCraft need changes, but its not like "very very imbalanced game" its more about the players, everyone has his best and worst MU.
And again, we have the MAPS, who is the most important thing. Im sure if we had 4-5 maps every year like StarCraft Korean leagues, the numbers will change a lot, and it wont be "that imbalanced"
+1 thumbs
You're wrong. Remember most tournaments play with the bo3 format. The percentages are about a single match, winning the bo3 however is a much harder task. For example in the case of Orc vs Undead this yields a 66.23% to 33.77%. Which means Orcs win TWICE as much bo3's as undeads do in their encounter. If this arent tough numbers, then you have a very broad interpretation of 'balance'.
+7 thumbs
You should play more and care less about the numbers, its all about the players and the maps.
-1 thumbs
I'd thumb you up but i think you don't care.
+11 thumbs
i agree so much with you kayzer. the main thing that makes the difference are the players!
sure every race got different units with different hp/mana/dmg/armor/skills etc. but in the end a smart player can always take a victory. its well known that u arent allowed to make just a few faults on a high lvl vs certain races but hey thats life.
removing one race wouldnt help at all i think. thats just bs... ppl will come up with another race to be imba and would like it to be removed also. get a clue...
what r u mkaing ur statistics of btw? its completely bs to use just a few games on the pro level to make this statictics meaningful. tbh we can find a change in strategies and players that dominate every here and there. maps are a more important factor imo - and to talk about maps, i think every race has stronger and weaker maps.
i remember certain mus to be considered imba - hu vs ud for a while, before th000 started mk or pally first and now i cant see a big difference in percentage of winning overall (ok ok i didnt make statistics but it looks like both races are still complaining a bit so its almost even - the last thing depends on players (mind set, micro, macro, adaption,training ,will to win, daily form)
as of yet and even in future there will be people that whine. i think its naturally to do that, one of the biggest flaws(a lot of whining and no respect for other players) and also their strenght (games/matchup keep changing in things of strategy and are frequently discussed in forums). these forums are a good proof to that. progamer A wins pg B --> conclusion: the race of A must be imba (if its no mirror ofc)
if orc wins with raiders sw tc vs elf, nerf orc! if elf wins with talons over orc, nerf elf! if hu wins with towers, nerf hu! if ud wins with dessy, nerf ud!
endless story, so from my point of view id say wc3 is the most balanced rts game if there wouldnt be starcraft!!
sure every race got different units with different hp/mana/dmg/armor/skills etc. but in the end a smart player can always take a victory. its well known that u arent allowed to make just a few faults on a high lvl vs certain races but hey thats life.
removing one race wouldnt help at all i think. thats just bs... ppl will come up with another race to be imba and would like it to be removed also. get a clue...
what r u mkaing ur statistics of btw? its completely bs to use just a few games on the pro level to make this statictics meaningful. tbh we can find a change in strategies and players that dominate every here and there. maps are a more important factor imo - and to talk about maps, i think every race has stronger and weaker maps.
i remember certain mus to be considered imba - hu vs ud for a while, before th000 started mk or pally first and now i cant see a big difference in percentage of winning overall (ok ok i didnt make statistics but it looks like both races are still complaining a bit so its almost even - the last thing depends on players (mind set, micro, macro, adaption,training ,will to win, daily form)
as of yet and even in future there will be people that whine. i think its naturally to do that, one of the biggest flaws(a lot of whining and no respect for other players) and also their strenght (games/matchup keep changing in things of strategy and are frequently discussed in forums). these forums are a good proof to that. progamer A wins pg B --> conclusion: the race of A must be imba (if its no mirror ofc)
if orc wins with raiders sw tc vs elf, nerf orc! if elf wins with talons over orc, nerf elf! if hu wins with towers, nerf hu! if ud wins with dessy, nerf ud!
endless story, so from my point of view id say wc3 is the most balanced rts game if there wouldnt be starcraft!!
+3 thumbs
i agree witl Wolvi , but you know in SC there is almost no luck - u don`t get items , the spawn point hardly matters , your units do a specific dmg (its not like 20-65 , its 10 , 15) and you know that in wc3 all these things can solve the whole game , so sometimes when the opposite race gets the right items it needs it starts to get "imba"
+1 thumbs
tank dmg = 10,15 ?
And by the way i dont remember such spell in wc3 like plague which let only 1 hp to units -_-
And by the way i dont remember such spell in wc3 like plague which let only 1 hp to units -_-
+2 thumbs
well u have a lot more units that die much faster (compare 1 footmen vs 1 grunt AND 1 marine vs 2 lings).
well in order to that spell "plague" - you have to "tech" a lot and use a big amoung of your vespin gas. and the unit casting it is pretty easy to kill. compared to possesion form banshee its still not THAT imba imo)
toss got a lot of shield anyways, so it would be pretty useful vs terrans only (or zerg mirror), maybe vs some expensive mass hp units.
i think SC is just faster than wc3 (if u dont count infi vs like @ turtle as common game :)
well in order to that spell "plague" - you have to "tech" a lot and use a big amoung of your vespin gas. and the unit casting it is pretty easy to kill. compared to possesion form banshee its still not THAT imba imo)
toss got a lot of shield anyways, so it would be pretty useful vs terrans only (or zerg mirror), maybe vs some expensive mass hp units.
i think SC is just faster than wc3 (if u dont count infi vs like @ turtle as common game :)
+1 thumbs
learn to read pls
zerg got plague
terran got shock which actually pretty much pwns protoss
protoss got that nasty storm which pwns pretty hard
so i don`t really see the imba , as well as any luck involved (or any significant like finding exp tomes , auras , mana/hp pots etc)
zerg got plague
terran got shock which actually pretty much pwns protoss
protoss got that nasty storm which pwns pretty hard
so i don`t really see the imba , as well as any luck involved (or any significant like finding exp tomes , auras , mana/hp pots etc)
+1 thumbs
-____- I wanted to replay to good-game...
+1 thumbs
i like sc more. but i play wc3.
So i know a little about sc ) Still there many ppl who think that terran is much more > than the other races :D
Well anyway i do agree with you in all you said
So i know a little about sc ) Still there many ppl who think that terran is much more > than the other races :D
Well anyway i do agree with you in all you said
+1 thumbs
hostile i ve been talking about plague... i know toss got shields. so plague doesnt do too much, but PLAGUE is good vs terrans. that was what i meant to say
i didnt want to say shields > terran :/
i didnt want to say shields > terran :/
+1 thumbs
I wanted to reply to good-game , not to you ;/ just the site buggs
+1 thumbs
oh well - mizzunderst00d :D
+2 thumbs
Each race needs to evolve, to renew the way it's played, and for that they need brilliant players who are able to create strats, like Moon for the elves and Sky for the humans.
Undeads haven't had such a player since Madfrog, and orc since Zacard, but these times Grubby and some other orcs like Focus, Who etc are renewing the way to play orc (e.g by going T3).
That's why undead is atm the race that looks the weakest one, and orcs have recently achieved some nice results.
Undeads haven't had such a player since Madfrog, and orc since Zacard, but these times Grubby and some other orcs like Focus, Who etc are renewing the way to play orc (e.g by going T3).
That's why undead is atm the race that looks the weakest one, and orcs have recently achieved some nice results.
+0 thumbs
Agree 100%, strats need to evolve and without players like MaDFroG, Zacard, and ALL old school of Korea, you got the same players doing the same thing EVERYTIME, thats the begin of "omg undead always lose to orc ($I%(@#)% orc imba".
If the Orc player does something, and the Undead KEEP doing the SAME everytime, he will lose.
Like i said, its all about players improving strats and keeping the game "live" with new stuff.
If you take a look on the SC Korean Scene you will see that NO ONES keep being "best" for 2-3 months, thats because SC got a LOT of possibles strats to do, and also EVERY NEW MAP makes the game change a lot, example, Terran not being able to close their ramp, so they have to care about Protoss early push, etc.
Anyway, who cares, like 70% of the people, Im waiting SC2 hoping of a new good RTS to challenge.
If the Orc player does something, and the Undead KEEP doing the SAME everytime, he will lose.
Like i said, its all about players improving strats and keeping the game "live" with new stuff.
If you take a look on the SC Korean Scene you will see that NO ONES keep being "best" for 2-3 months, thats because SC got a LOT of possibles strats to do, and also EVERY NEW MAP makes the game change a lot, example, Terran not being able to close their ramp, so they have to care about Protoss early push, etc.
Anyway, who cares, like 70% of the people, Im waiting SC2 hoping of a new good RTS to challenge.
+1 thumbs
this is why lucifer has won a few games coz hes trying new strats out
+1 thumbs
cant agree more with Kayzer
tbh Im really TIRED of watching players doing the same shit EVERYGAME.
In the old Korean leagues or WEGs,they changed their strats in almost every match.One becuz they had better chance to win,one bcuz of the new maps every season.Therefore the game kept evolving,the fans kept being excited,kept lovin the game.
tbh Im really TIRED of watching players doing the same shit EVERYGAME.
In the old Korean leagues or WEGs,they changed their strats in almost every match.One becuz they had better chance to win,one bcuz of the new maps every season.Therefore the game kept evolving,the fans kept being excited,kept lovin the game.
-2 thumbs
60/40 isnt realy imba....
+4 thumbs
Human = Orc = Nightelf, Undead is a bit weak 'cuz they have a lot of problem with expands. It's just my opinion.
+1 thumbs
this is a part of the specific of the Undead race , how many strats that the undeads use involve the need of an expansion and how many of hu/elf require one.....
+2 thumbs
kankergert xD
+1 thumbs
Still dont get the thread title "The solution to wc3 imbalance"?!
Whats the point on looking on sk-stats. Come with ideas about what could make it more balanced instead.
Whats the point on looking on sk-stats. Come with ideas about what could make it more balanced instead.
-2 thumbs
I'm glad most of these posts were made yesterday, I really thought for a moment you guys were serious about 60% win-rate not being imbalanced and depending on the player.
+0 thumbs
ye so easy to come up with new strats every day..........
+2 thumbs
Not new strat, but playstyle.
+1 thumbs
it isn't easy, that's why there are people getting money for gaming. look at the grandpa of rts starcraft, every season they come up with new builds and strats. agree on the maps part though, you need new maps for new strategies. maps are the reason wc3 and even cs will fail at some point imo.
+2 thumbs
ban orc imba race!
+1 thumbs
you want to save the rainforest? Thats why you picked nelf because wisp dont hurt trees unlike orcs who kill them.
+2 thumbs
lol either u have a great imagination or u thought of that for some time, thumbs up for it anyway
+2 thumbs
seem like I underestimate tyson gay's manner