Even though it's not over yet, night-elf is not going to win a single match in the current "race war". It was not such a bad choice by the organizers not to set up moon although I am not sure he was not asked to play.
This was indeed very instructive. I don't think someone can find a player more successful than moon nowadays. He is undoubtably the best player all times. To see night-elf going its way without their spiritual leader can shed some light about the presupposed imbalance of night-elf, precisely not only at the "generalized pro-level" (for which the statistics of this website did a great job) but for the very top level as well. And not considering moon as a night-elf but as the only one of his own fifth race, showed what it really was about, but perhaps it would have been fairer to remove sky of the human team, however I can't imagine ToD doing much worse!
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+4 thumbs 
sase 2-0 xiaot
+13 thumbs
I agree Moon is the best NE, and without him they miss a big point-scorer (Check rly good too). It's not the fault of other races that elf was unable to field a line-up which includes them. One important thing to remember is that this map-pool was actually fair: LT GW TR TM TS EI SV with both players being allowed to veto away 2 maps. One reason which has been offered again and again for why Elf dominates certain tours is because of stubbornness of some tournament organisers to make anti-orc biased maps.
eg. WCG 2003 - 2006 uses: TR TM TS EI, basically what was above there but minus GW, SV, LT (Good orc maps). Can it be hard to understand the effect it has on Orc and/or Elf performance? MGC was won by Lyn in an amazing way - he won TR twice vs Moon. But MGC DID have better maps: SV was included for example. Not a freewin at all, but a very hard map still vs a good opponent. But it's better than TR or TS for Orc. And worse for NE ofcourse. So really, it's often maps that decide a lot.
eg. WCG 2003 - 2006 uses: TR TM TS EI, basically what was above there but minus GW, SV, LT (Good orc maps). Can it be hard to understand the effect it has on Orc and/or Elf performance? MGC was won by Lyn in an amazing way - he won TR twice vs Moon. But MGC DID have better maps: SV was included for example. Not a freewin at all, but a very hard map still vs a good opponent. But it's better than TR or TS for Orc. And worse for NE ofcourse. So really, it's often maps that decide a lot.
-2 thumbs
Good job by grubby! He lead team orc to the win that's why he is still king of orcs, who wants to argue bout that???
+5 thumbs
i don't, both lt and sv are fine playable with many playstyles that can work, the difference is that orcs play perfect at ts and tr and tm cause they have to, its obvious orcs practise 1000 times as much on those maps than elf do vs lt and sv, i mean who cares if you drop a map in a online bo3, if the major tournaments dont include them why would i break my head over those maps. Simple truth is, elfs are spoiled and never practised those maps as they could , just because you have to play it different than non fountain maps it doesnt mean you can't win it
+7 thumbs
RotterdaM is right, LT used to be really hard vs elf because of all the ways that they were expanding, only zacard was really good at beating elfs on LT. Gnoll Wood mana fountain is not even good for Orc, also close positions on GW sometimes nullifies the use of fountain at all, and SV is not even that great vs Elf. Almost all creeps poison or ensnare you, look at the four major creepcamps on SV: the 2 shops & 2 side expansions. Try to fight with an elf for those, and it could become pretty dangerous. The fact that there's fountains compensates a little for it being an elf-map otherwise, but look at Check/Moon? They nearly always kill 1-2 grunts from every orc on it, there must be a reason for it.
+0 thumbs
I never said elf can't win on that maps, and you're right, i also think elfs dont practise lt/gw that much cuz in nearly every league you can vote them out and orcs vote ts/tr and you have to play like every time the same maps like tm/echo/sv. Maybe the organisator of some leagues doing some mistakes. ;)
+0 thumbs
I doubt the elf benefits more from TS where they might have a creeping advantage than Orc from creeping their heros to 3/3 and grabbing level5 items on Lost Temple without a challenge.
+6 thumbs
We have to play TR/TS sometimes, but elf doesnt have to play LT ever, except in NGL.
+1 thumbs
Maybe changing veto in a way like u say one map which you WANT to play with ur enemy. :O
+2 thumbs
There are some interesting comments, but it's not only about orc versus elf, and neither that I'm trying to say elf is weak, but rather that elf tends to be overrated because of moon's performances and it is why this tournament was really interesting, in my opinion. However, they should probably try it again with another map system, and maybe with at least Check together with remind and soju in order to have a real "killer" in every matchup, and maybe with having the best performing player in every matchup playing the final confrontation.
+2 thumbs
The problem is ELF on bad maps for ORC mean that ORC can't win if you dont play the perfect counter.... and if Elf don't make mistakes.
On maps that favour ORCs however Elf have a huge variety of strategies which can win any game even if they play bad.
Look at Sky for instance who is forced to play on bad HU maps often. Because HU have so many strats he can still beat anyone on any map ie. GW / SV.
ORC are very limited in what they can do >.
On maps that favour ORCs however Elf have a huge variety of strategies which can win any game even if they play bad.
Look at Sky for instance who is forced to play on bad HU maps often. Because HU have so many strats he can still beat anyone on any map ie. GW / SV.
ORC are very limited in what they can do >.
+1 thumbs
thats not a good idea voshix i think the goal which need to be reached should be that the most balanced maps will be played. This is the intention of the veto system. It's all about the mappool to have a big variety of maps and not to exclude lt/gw from the start. New maps would be something great as well.
+2 thumbs
imo the solution is introducing a new map like once a month or something.
Then remove broken maps.
2 rivers was removed, Lost Temple should also go.
TR/TS don't seem to be as imba as some of you orcs claim when looking at statistics.
I am however not a progamer, so I would not have any personal experience playing these maps for loads of money.
ofc playing only the four maps: TS/TR/TM/EI is imba for orcs.
But when you add all 3 SV/GW/LT, then this map pool definatly favous orc.
It's enough to add one of them to balance the map pool imo.
Then remove broken maps.
2 rivers was removed, Lost Temple should also go.
TR/TS don't seem to be as imba as some of you orcs claim when looking at statistics.
I am however not a progamer, so I would not have any personal experience playing these maps for loads of money.
ofc playing only the four maps: TS/TR/TM/EI is imba for orcs.
But when you add all 3 SV/GW/LT, then this map pool definatly favous orc.
It's enough to add one of them to balance the map pool imo.
Deleted
+1 thumbs
i cant stand how some retards cant read wtf is said.
"MGC was won by Lyn in an amazing way - he won TR twice vs Moon" how is that trashtalking?
he said that mgc had sv which it idd had, so it is a better mappool, how is that trashtalking lyn in anyway? lyn pwnt mgc he played awesome, and the only reason u can understand his post as trashtalk is cuz ur one of the biggest grubby haters on sk-forum, so u can easily twist it in sum hatin way with ur brain or wtf u got please get a clue, in 2 minutes were gonna see sent 'agreeing' with seven, unless ur less it takes less than 2 minutes to switch account for u
"MGC was won by Lyn in an amazing way - he won TR twice vs Moon" how is that trashtalking?
he said that mgc had sv which it idd had, so it is a better mappool, how is that trashtalking lyn in anyway? lyn pwnt mgc he played awesome, and the only reason u can understand his post as trashtalk is cuz ur one of the biggest grubby haters on sk-forum, so u can easily twist it in sum hatin way with ur brain or wtf u got please get a clue, in 2 minutes were gonna see sent 'agreeing' with seven, unless ur less it takes less than 2 minutes to switch account for u
-2 thumbs
ah sevenof.... you are really a poor guy xD can't understand how somebody can hate another person so much he never met ...
guess u are just a stupid retard that noone likes in the rl xD i'm sorry 4 u
grubby gaining shape! and if he wins an offline tournament this year i hope u disappear for a few months :)
moon also is an awesome wc3 player xD
fuck the haters!
guess u are just a stupid retard that noone likes in the rl xD i'm sorry 4 u
grubby gaining shape! and if he wins an offline tournament this year i hope u disappear for a few months :)
moon also is an awesome wc3 player xD
fuck the haters!
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