Panda 1st vs human: I remember it was pretty damn popular years ago. I mean it's good for both against Human fast expand and tower rushing....How come it's no longer used ?

Bear dryad vs orc: It's also a popular NE vs orc strategy, but it somehow died down for some reasons

I sense the appearance of ever so loved and the ever so hater, the all time most discussed hero, Balance Master

Ok I fucked up. Misspelled and forgot some words but whataheck, it was a catchy line

Dude we suffer with you. Why is this the god damn only forum in the web without edit function.

Cause Ownitsch is a retard?XDDDDDD

those where the good old times, when each bullshit unit combo from nightelf was able to take down orc :D how sad that blizzard made this game die

I have the same question:Why elfs stoped playing bears dryads vs orcs???

some elfs still are, but now its essential to disable bm in the fights.. also most of the good bears maps arent played anymore :)

and i think some people still are playing panda first vs human, but afaik it was never too popular and building an arcane tower pretty much solves panda. But panda is still nuts vs humba on MV :)

we saw moon pulling bear/dryad againt moon i shadowleague not so much time ago. And panda against human? mk solves pretty much.

I always thought Panda was kind of a counter against mk. Ofc it doesn't "counter" MK but when you scout MK it's probably a better choice than DR. Because Bolt 2 + DR = §/("$%&

yeah but zhe best counter to mk is surely the classic dh.

If you mean Moon vs Fly, he made bears cause of Headhunters. Yeah, that helped alot...

About bears, as Targa said, the usual bear maps like GW and LT are gone, not that those were any good vs Orc to begin with. The other reason is why dotts are played in the first place: to keep the Blademaster in the air so he can't deal damage. Bears can't provide that, plus ensnare + Kodos just rapes them.

Panda first vs Human was a one hit wonder strat (hi axslav/th000). it can work but if the Human scouts tavern bo, sends footie over and sees the hero, he will expand really fast and then start pushing immediately. DR can handle that a better, Panda just goes "uh yeah level 1 bof and i got 6 defended footies vs archers in my base T_T" (infi vs Shy @ kode5 finals).
On MV where the Human can't really go for a harass to get his expo through, any tavern hero works fine, even tinker.

Panda first on EI was used pretty frequntly by Creo and Moon as far as I know.It's a legit strat.
On this map for example,it's very hard for a human to actually get his expo started and be in your base before the panda reaches lvl 3(or at least close to it).If you want to have defend on your footies for this push,your expo will be severely delayed.If you go for a straight fast expo and then head to the elfs base,the chances are that every decent NE will scout it on time,and the one of the 2 following options:
1)send his lvl 2 panda(from creeping the merc camp) to your expo and make you return to defend ur peasants.Otherwise,they get owned.Also,the panda doesn't even need to be at the merc camp while it is being crept with aow+archers/troll priest.He just needs to kill the wizard,get the item and head to the hu expo.There is NO way you can get to his base faster than he gets to yours.While you're busy defending from the panda,he can also walk over his AoW to his natural and,again,creep it without the panda being there.
2)Use his archers/troll+panda to assault your expo.The human has no choice but to defend it or he effectively loses the game right there.

There can be no early pushing against a panda with hu.It just doesn't work.Your best option is an early expo,like you said,securing it with arcane towers,and then at t2 get SBs and an MK and start pushing.
I've never seen anyone try it,but I think a bloodmage second would be a disaster against a panda.

And some1 said that an MK first counters the panda.I don't think so.A ne can always get a DH second,which makes ur MK (as ToD said) a ''ghoul with a hammer''.There is the option of going MK/Pala/Bloodmage which was the strat used by platoplus-ghost while he was still active and works quite well actually,but that's rly another topic...

the NE's who played bears alot vs Orc are inactive.
Creo & apm70.
Also the dryadnerf gives Blademaster so much experience that bears + dryads is not that good anymore.
Gnollwood (with manafountain) was a popular map for bears, but that's gone ofc.
Also Moon did DH bears often ater other nefls copied his talon-tac. But he doesn't seem to do that much anymore.

As for the panda first vs HU, this was pretty much only used on EI. Which I guess to a certain extent it still is. But DR or DH is usually better.

Agreed.

Though,Moon has had great success in the past playing fast tech to bears on TM all the time.Since the orcish counter to this has remained stagnant,I wonder why he doesn't use it any more,ever.

That's why I gave infi vs Shy as example, leaving all your arguments useless. The elf can be lucky to have finished the merc creep by the time the Human arrives. Panda still only has level 1 bof, defend or not, he can't counter the push. What would the panda do at the expo? Even if the arcane tower isn't up he might kill some peasants but he can't take down the expo, so in the long run he loses while the Human is in his base.
What units does he have to defend if his Aow is on the way to his natural lol you make it sound like 2 archers and a troll can creep the whole map while the AM and footies are nowhere to be found...

I haven't seen Infi vs Shy,but if Infi went for a FE as you suggested than there is no way he can get to Shy's base before he creeps the merc camp at least.That gives the panda lvl 2 and drunken haze,which makes it incredibily easy to kill 5-6 peasants trying to expand if they're not defended.And if he decides not to use creep further with his panda absent,than his army,consisting of 3-4 archers(not 2) and a troll priest+troll berserker there is no way on earth that a human can expand if he is running around the NE's base.All he can manage is to cancel the NE expansion and maybe kill a wisp,but this turn of events would favor the NE as he would already be teching while the human would not.

And please,if you'd be so kind to give me a link to shy vs infi.Can't believe I missed that

http://tft.replayers.com/index.php?action=view&id=103790

Creeping the expo on EI is so fast, of course the Human can harass the elf before the elf can harass the Human.

Man this was a long time ago :) I'll get back at you soon

Just saw the game,funplayer.Could you have picked a worse example? :)
Not only did shy let infi get his troll priest,but he also had his troll berserker surronded 5 seconds later.The footmen didn't have defend that soon as you were saying.Shy was careless while kreeping the small gnoll camp.Lost an archer and a troll.Not to mention that Shy's creeping was a bit outdated,and his MW placement didn't make any sense,which is why he lost his troll and the archer in the first place.All in all,shy handled that push very badly,and played a very bad game overall.I watched it till about early T2,and that's all I needed to see.

I don't remember the details, I only remembered that when I watched that game I immediately thought "Panda? What an outdated strategy. Shy doesn't stand a chance, Soccer would've been way better." And yeah, he got destroyed.
Defend or not, I still think Panda can't get to level 3 and thus can't effectively counter the harass by the Human. Which means he can't delay the expo either.

Answer to your Panda 1st vs Hu question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIMuPuty00I&feature=related

Now that's the good ol' Moon fighting till last breath! :)

fixed

But please refrain from posting games of the patchelf losing in one of those cheap korean or chinese invite tournaments that he didn't win...

Nah, thanks for the video, too bad we don't get those tournaments anymore, with Korean shoutcasters screaming JANG JAAAAEEEE HOOOOO and GEEEE GEEEE.

panda first wasnt a one time wonder strategy, its just that warden is way better vs human nowadays and pretty much counters everything human can do.

panda is still good vs players who expand or players who suck.

bringer was good with panda vs human and undead afaik

panda gets countered pretty easy by aggressive humans, panda rox if the human plays passive, creeps and camps allowing panda to hit serious lvls.
bears/dryad doesnt work cuz of bm and exp dryads give. a decent pimped bm needs 2 hits to kill one dryad, he also ignores rejuvanation totally. since the bm damage output increased so much, theres no way you can take a fight vs that hero. human also plays tr, before the bm gets overpowered, or mk griffs with getting mk lvl3 before bm is lvl2, and basecamping the whole game while bm pimps himself. bm is prolly the answer to any question you could ax.