NEWS
Starcraft 2: Balance debate
As a follow up on Michael 'Zechs' Radford's "Terran weak or just unlucky?", I would like to share insight from a former Starcraft:Brood War player's point of view.
By Calinescu 'Dynasty' Dan-Gabriel
May 11, 2010 11:05
As a follow up on Michael 'Zechs' Radford's "Terran weak or just unlucky?", I would like to share insight from a former Starcraft:Brood War player's point of view.After reading Michael 'Zechs' Radford's Terran weak or just unlucky?, which quite frankly was a very interesting read, I decided to start up a debate, based on a different point of view.
By different, I mean, the game seen from the eyes of a former Starcraft:Brood War player.
First of all, I want to point out that a statistic based on prior performances of a player or group of players, during a competition, can't provide arguments for or against what race is balanced, weak or even overpowered.
In my own vision, I strongly believe that it all comes down to every player's perception on a certain race and what they look for when first chosing a race to play with.
For example, a player that is about to have his first contact with the game, raises a simple question:
What race should I play in my future adventures within the Starcraft 2 universe?
Well, the answer for this question is quite simple. You have to try out every race and chose the one that suits best your game dynamics preferences. For instance, the Terran's gameplay is more static, yet stronger and a little harder to counter, while the Protoss and Zerg races are more dynamic, yet weaker in small numbers and easier to counter.
Please note that the stronger-weaker status is ment for certain types of units, not the race balance issue.
Personally, I chose Protoss becouse it suits me best.
If you ask me why there are so many Protoss and Zerg players out there and so few Terran players, my answer would defenately be : 'It's becouse few players find Terran entertaining to play with and enjoy the more static game'.
A little above, I mentioned something about the way a player's perception of a certain race, can affect it's judgement when the balance issue is brought into dicussion.
At least in my case, I have a hard time besting Zerg players. Eventhough, the Zerg race isn't necessarily imbalanced, in my head I'm fixed on the idea that the Zerg is imbalanced, for the simple reason I rarely win against it.
Regarding the technical imbalance that currently seems to affect the beta stage of the game, all I can say is that, in order to achieve balance, Blizzard's devs should focus on balancing the costs, build time and efficiency (damage/armor/skills) of each unit in the game's arsenal, by comparing it to it's counterpart from the other 2 races.
If you have, for example, a Thor that costs 300 Minerals, 200 Gas, 60 seconds build time and 6 supply, and it gets beaten easily by 2-3 Zealots (Only 300 minerals, no gas and the same supply usage), well that's an imbalance.
Now, as a former Starcraft Brood War player, where the game wasn't this oriented towards unit counters, I can say for sure that there are some units in the current beta version that are simply not worth building.
As a good example, i can offer you the Protoss High Templar with it's Psionic Storm, that in the current beta has a really small AOE that's almost a single target spell.
The High Templar costs the outrageous amount of 150 gas, which is a lot of gas to pay for a unit that has the survivability of a Probe and has an ability that needs to be landed perfectly, 3 times in a row, in order to kill air units.
The Terran Thor, costs a fortune, yet it only takes 3 zealots to beat it.
Well, what I wanted to point out with these examples is that, the first step towards balancing the game, is nerfing or boosting every unit's efficiency rate.
This is my point of view, what's your's?
By different, I mean, the game seen from the eyes of a former Starcraft:Brood War player.
First of all, I want to point out that a statistic based on prior performances of a player or group of players, during a competition, can't provide arguments for or against what race is balanced, weak or even overpowered.
In my own vision, I strongly believe that it all comes down to every player's perception on a certain race and what they look for when first chosing a race to play with.
For example, a player that is about to have his first contact with the game, raises a simple question:
What race should I play in my future adventures within the Starcraft 2 universe?
Well, the answer for this question is quite simple. You have to try out every race and chose the one that suits best your game dynamics preferences. For instance, the Terran's gameplay is more static, yet stronger and a little harder to counter, while the Protoss and Zerg races are more dynamic, yet weaker in small numbers and easier to counter.
Please note that the stronger-weaker status is ment for certain types of units, not the race balance issue.
Personally, I chose Protoss becouse it suits me best.
If you ask me why there are so many Protoss and Zerg players out there and so few Terran players, my answer would defenately be : 'It's becouse few players find Terran entertaining to play with and enjoy the more static game'.
A little above, I mentioned something about the way a player's perception of a certain race, can affect it's judgement when the balance issue is brought into dicussion.
At least in my case, I have a hard time besting Zerg players. Eventhough, the Zerg race isn't necessarily imbalanced, in my head I'm fixed on the idea that the Zerg is imbalanced, for the simple reason I rarely win against it.
Regarding the technical imbalance that currently seems to affect the beta stage of the game, all I can say is that, in order to achieve balance, Blizzard's devs should focus on balancing the costs, build time and efficiency (damage/armor/skills) of each unit in the game's arsenal, by comparing it to it's counterpart from the other 2 races.
If you have, for example, a Thor that costs 300 Minerals, 200 Gas, 60 seconds build time and 6 supply, and it gets beaten easily by 2-3 Zealots (Only 300 minerals, no gas and the same supply usage), well that's an imbalance.
Now, as a former Starcraft Brood War player, where the game wasn't this oriented towards unit counters, I can say for sure that there are some units in the current beta version that are simply not worth building.
As a good example, i can offer you the Protoss High Templar with it's Psionic Storm, that in the current beta has a really small AOE that's almost a single target spell.
The High Templar costs the outrageous amount of 150 gas, which is a lot of gas to pay for a unit that has the survivability of a Probe and has an ability that needs to be landed perfectly, 3 times in a row, in order to kill air units.
The Terran Thor, costs a fortune, yet it only takes 3 zealots to beat it.
Well, what I wanted to point out with these examples is that, the first step towards balancing the game, is nerfing or boosting every unit's efficiency rate.
This is my point of view, what's your's?
RELATED NEWS
38 comments
Loading comments...


20+ minutes 1. Zerg 2. Terran 3. Protoss
20 + minutes Terran can be on first place if terran player knows how to use raven.
See ya!
Um, sorry but I can't understand the reason for this statementl. Are you saying that all units need to be changed? And isn't it pretty obvious that balance is largely about nerfing or buffing particular units for each race?
"If you have, for example, a Thor that costs 300 Minerals, 200 Gas, 60 seconds build time and 6 supply, and it gets beaten easily by 2-3 Zealots (Only 300 minerals, no gas and the same supply usage), well that's an imbalance."
Even if this is true, what's wrong with the presence of counters? If the player uses his Thor badly by placing it right at the frontlines against massed zealots, then that's a problem with skill, not with balance. Thors have an amazing ability for gas/mineral harassing when paired with a medivac, and can scare the hell out of hellions and other units. Everything has a role and purpose - if a unit has a counter, that only means that it has a counter, and not that it's useless.
Just IMO, of course.
By "Well, what I wanted to point out with these examples is that, the first step towards balancing the game, is nerfing or boosting every unit's efficiency rate." i was referring to make the nerfing/boosting while comparing them to they counterparts in the other races. At the moment, it all feels like, if Blizzard feels a unit is weak, they just add some +damage or something and start over with the testing.
I tried making several high templars against mutalisks and it all failed when i had to land 3 perfect psionic storms to kill a group of mutalisks.
As for the second part, I guess only Blizzard knows how exactly their balancing process goes.
Thanks for the reply! ^^
that's the point that dissapointed me at the moment , the armor systeme is to much like Warcraft 3 and not like BW :(
You can not look at a specific unit and go 'IT TAKES X OF Y TO KILL Z'.
Thor vs zealot, an example you seem to hang a lot of this article on. Ever heard of SCV's? They repair, they repair thors. Interesting hey? If you dont get it yet just look up some early thor play on youtube. Notice i use the word early? Why would a zealot ever hit a thor?surely if youre using thor you have a nice lot of marauders to tank for it at the front. marauders rape zealots.
But furthermore, what is the role of a thor? sure straight up zealots will beat an unsupported thor, but who cares, seen 3 thors mixed into a MMM ball? the aoe air splash will rape mass mutas, thors are good defense agaisnt any air really, they also server as a bit of an anti-tank, with their cannon upgrade they can take out valuable units on the other team, namely collosi and ultralisks. Why does a thors unit cost have to be balanced because it is less cost effective agaisnt a ZEALOT? Your whole point is really silly. you need to think of the game in whole.
High templar? useless?
You're not a very good toss hey? Sure, the aoe is quite small, but have you ever played against a MMM ball before? marines are small, they group up, they have low HP, a good terran will have marauders at front protecting marines (... and thors if they had them agaisnt those 2 zealots that are goignt o kill it) if you can get a HT up enough to hit the marines, i dont care how small the aoe is, its goign to kill shit fast. HT's are unbalanced because it takes 3 storms to kill air? what kidn of argument is that? Go on youtube look up orb FF/psi storm surround. Banelings have very low HP, storm is small, but kills banelings nicely. Storm is HUGE but again, if youre using it to three storm kill air units, youre firstly very bad, and very stupid and missing the point of storm. Not to mention HT's do have other situationally useful spells, feedback for example. . . somethign you dont even consider in your 'WAAA 150 GAS AND THEY KILL AIR IN THREE STORMS >.> INBALANCE!' Feedback is actually useful in certain situations. Defending againsta banshee thats snuck in during a fight, if you see a full mana battlecruiser or thor, feedback WILL do a lot of damage. Please dont write crap if you do not understand the game.
All units in the game are good at something and if you pick one and say OMG IT CANT KILL AIR IN 3 STORMS or IT TAKES THREE ZEALOTS TO KILL IT AND IT COSTS A TRILLION GAS AND MINS youre missing the point.
As a good example, i can offer you the Protoss High Templar with it's Psionic Storm, that in the current beta has a really small AOE that's almost a single target spell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_TIDLHzAkM is the vid i was talkigna bout, read it, then reply that HT's are 'simply not worht building' (this vid may pre date the psi storm changes, but it doesnt change anything in thsi vid, it woulda done the same thign regardless of range.)
Your article was a good laugh.
I played WC3 a lot and I was good (a few years ago though), but i got no real clue of SC..I just wannt you to know my perpective :)
In WC3, you had in most cases THE strategie for each map and matchup, maybe two. The games went 95% the same way in terms of strategie, timing, etc. A good match was match in which none of the players got an advantage early on and the game lasted long with a few turnarounds maybe. But what made you watch pro-reps/game was the perfection in micro and timing and you said "wtf, how did he manage to micro that well?". There are rarely games on pro-level where one player "cheeses", so you got very little variation.
So, when you watch a WC3-Movie, you see close escapes, nice surrounds and only a little bit of creativity.
A few weeks ago, I started to get interested in SC, but had no beta-key, so I couldn't watch replays. I watched a few SC2 VoDs and streams, but also took a look at SCBW when there was no new SC2 stuff.
What i saw where a few games and the "pimpest play" series. What you see there is, of course, on the one handside the perfect usage of certain units. Playing these units perfectly gives them a potential NO unit in wc3 ever comes close to (except the blademaster of course :D), which opens new strategies. We had Micro in wc3 too, so this wasn't too new to me, but in so many games you saw so many different strategies, because nearly every unit was/is viable. I can't give really good examples, because I don't really know very much about SCBW, but the game was hard to understand for me just because everytime they played different strategies.
This, of course, makes every game very interesting to watch, as you never gonna know what's going to happen next.
I'm also afraid of SC2 becoming more or less a WC3 without heroes rather than SCBW with better grafics and a few changes/addition.
Anyway, I guess it's normal that sometimes some people missunderstand you and start flaming.
However, it's also normal that certain units to have weaknesses against some other type of units and than again, are really strong against others.
At least I, havent found a viable counter for mass mutas and blood lords since psionic storm didn't do the trick for me,eventhough i landed every single storm perfectly.
Viable counter 2: Stalkers + sentries. Preferable with blink upgraded.
Some SCBW players seems to panic alot about this game because its not identical to sc1.
[quote]The Terran Thor, costs a fortune, yet it only takes 3 zealots to beat it.[/quote]
and fairly cheap vikings pwns colosus!!!!!!!
you know u have other units, like maruders/rines or stalkers/sentry ;]
you dont understand the meaning of balance imo ;]
Please note that all the Thor->Zealots examples, are pure theoretical stuff. What i did is asking someone to play a custom game with me and place a thor vs my 3 zealots in the middle of the map and see who wins.
Terran aren't so static in SC2 really, they're just as mobile if not more mobile than protoss. People don't play them because pretty much every matchup is based around massing marauders. There's different openings but the core of your army pretty much always ends up as marauders.
Haven't watched the interview yet but Artosis interviewed the current #1 protoss in Korea and ex BW pro and his opinion is terran are the most powerful.
About the marauder thing, im pretty sure that the current marauders would not be a core build if they had the old firebat atack instead of the current concusive shells. :)
SCBW makes my eyes bleed. Sc2 makes me love. XD
"a Thor that costs 300 Minerals, 200 Gas, 60 seconds build time and 6 supply, and it gets beaten easily by 2-3 Zealots (Only 300 minerals, no gas and the same supply usage), well that's an imbalance."
- btw thors can do pretty well vs mutas how many zelots to kill 1 air unit? You compare diffrent class of units that are used for DIFFRENT REASONS. You can repair the thor while fighting with scvs ?! u can call mule in any point of the map and repair?! u can use cannon ability too? You have 0 arguments...
" i had to land 3 perfect psionic storms to kill a group of mutalisks"
- Sorry u have to use time and skill to learn how to use 1 ability ! This shouldnt be written by somebody that post something in the gaming news. i cant remember but i am sure i couldnt surround well when wc3 roc came out ?!? so go to patch with autosurround ?
"SCBW every medium to high skilled game was unique. It had variety and the player's imagination went a long way"
- same strats with so minimal variation. U have the variety now early/mid game u have the possibility depinding on your skiill to use diffrent strats.
at the start Terran > Protoss > Zerg (10-15min)
mid game Zerg > Terran > Protoss (later 15-20min)
at the end Zerg > Protoss >= Terran
Anyway, it is in man's nature to react negatively to things that go beyond its power to comprehend. :) That's the reason of the thumb downs, i guess. :)
Anyway, while every update brings a long a new cheese, the game has become way too much cheese-orientated. Playing 10-15min games is becoming extremely boring and isn't how starcraft should be played. Nowadays it's cheese & win or cheese & fail.
I think the 3 races are becoming more balanced and balanced, terran has been made right but zerg & protoss still need some work. Zerg is getting there but I feel there's something wrong with protoss yet I can't pinpoint what. Protoss players ALWAYS cheese.
Playing vs a mass muta build as terran or protoss is also extremely annoying. You're already static as terran and when facing mutas it almost completely contains you. Yeah; build Thors but they have 0 mobility which means you're mostly stuck with defence. Marines just get raped by mutas and vikings aren't good enough either. Turrets & Thors in base & mass marines/marauders attack works the best with vikings hunting overlords. Phoenix have become SO good to counter mutas too so I guess they're fixing the muta problem, vikings should get the same mobility though.
In sc:bw there was so much action going on with huge armies and sick micro with insane tactics, in sc2 it's just "fast reaper; fast zerglings, fast 4gate push" most of the time. I do it standard now too and rework my build around the same opening but I'm not happy about it. It's pretty painful if even Idra is starting to do it; just because everyone is trying to cheese him.
I wish people contributed more in a useful way; it's pretty funny how IQ can vary so much between sites. Reading 1 thread at teamliquid and 1 at sk is SUCH a big difference.
http://www.own3d.tv/video/26337/GosuTV_-_Episode_5/?HD&start=0