NEWS
Belgium Bites Back
After we earlier reported on redCode eSports.
By Richard '_evan' Armstrong
Sep 11, 2007 23:38
After we earlier reported on redCode eSports.
X-Fi scathing allegations of blackmail against professional Counter Strike team, defusekids. We have just received a statement from senior defusekids player, Ivan 'Apollo' Wuddhisukhum, who was very disappointed that the team was bearing the brunt of the blame from the situation.
"Our trip to Spain from A to Z:
We approached RedCode after our ESWC journey, for our organisation had no budget to pay for any international LAN.
We agreed to an initial budget of €500, to cover the primary travel expenses plus hotel stay, and agreed that extra expenses would be covered post-lan. A small summary of our costs:
Rental bus: €500
And there you have it, the initial budget all blown away just for the van!
Additional expenses:
Gasoline (all those with a car can and will agree)
Hotel stop on the road (driving 12hrs in a row = madness)
I will not go into detail, but the trip was a heavy one, beset with all sorts of problems. It took us 18hrs to get there. And the troubles only just commenced!
When we finally arrived at the Bilbao Exhibition centre (gamegune), it was already about 12 at night... After the trip we had we were really looking forward to get in our hotel room, since Yopi told us that everything was arranged. When we first met the redcode crew, everything seemed a little bit chaotic, since the guys who where responsible to take care of us and arrange our stuffs, like inscriptions, hotel, tournament information etc where the 3 same guys who organized the Counter-Strike 1.6 tournament. We still had a lot of confidence and we waited for a bout 1 hour at the entree of the gaming hall, redcode didn’t want to pay for our team coach his entree and they fixed him a press pass to get him free in. we felt a little bit weird about that, because our team coach was about to be with us during our games and not to be in the press area, but they said that if we get him in fast nobody would notice...
When we came at the point to get our hotel information for our first night in Spain, we suddenly heard that they didn't book any hotels and didn't have gear with them to get us a sleep at the LAN either. One guy from redCode even said that he didn’t know anything about booking a hotel for us, he didn’t even know about paying that for us. We confronted Yopi with everything and Yopi then said that they just had a small internal communication problem. The organisation didn’t have money to pay our hotel, but one of the crewmembers of redcode gave us money from his own bank account to pay our first night our hotel. Tough they couldn’t tell us where to find a hotel, since none of them was from Bilbao or knew the city. We went to about 5 hotels in a close range from the event that was within our budget, but all hotels where fully booked. We didn’t have any GPS and with no knowledge of Spanish we felt doomed and not helped by redCode at all. Luckily enough the Spanish people where very helpful and we found a random guy in the middle of the night who drove to a hotel about 20 minutes from the event. The money redcode paid wasn’t even enough to pay our first night, so we had to use our own last money for food, to pay the night.
The next day, we had problems to find our way back to the event, but we managed to get there, again with help from the good Spanish civilians. When we told the organisation about our hell night, they promised us that everything would be fixed for the second night and that we didn’t need to worries about anything at all.
After a full day of waiting and gaming we were about to go to our hotel again. Seemed that the redcode organisation again forgot to fix our hotel, again they gave us some money without any problems, from the crewmember his own bank account again. Same like the previous night, we had to find our hotel without any GPS or decent knowledge of the Spanish language. This night we weren’t so lucky, we where about driving for 1 and a half our in Spain to find a hotel that had room for 7 people. Suddenly out of nowhere we saw a truck with a Belgian car plate, we made him stop and asked him if he had a GPS and get us to a hotel, he did so, but we had to go on a very high and dangerous hill. Our car didn’t make the hill and it stopped in the middle of it, it was very dark there and we thought that we would die, because our car was going backwards downhill. We managed to get down very slow and take another road to the hotel we lost more then an hour again. About at 5 in the morning we found a hotel and could get some sleep. Yopi told us to be back at 1 in the afternoon, so we did.
When we where near the event, we got an SMS from a mate in Holland who told us we where disqualified, no one from redCode called us. When we arrived at the event, some admin from gamegune said that we had to play at 12, we confronted Yopi with him, because he said we had to play at 1, lucky for us the redCode admins had some influence on the gamegune admins and because Convention where really eager to play versus us after they beat SK Gaming.
We played our game and won it, even with all the extra motion we shouldn’t go trough. The same day we lost from PGS and from ZYKON and where knocked out of the tournament. At that point we saw that the crewmembers from redCode changed mentality towards us, and weren’t so friendly anymore, we felt that discussion would come up if we would ask for our hotel the 3rd night.
What we felt earlier, happened, again no hotels were booked and they didn’t want to give us money to go to a hotel. Our team captain ferdi had to threaten the redCode crew with actions and that it is totally unacceptable not getting a hotel for us. They clearly said that we were out of the tournament and that's why they acted all difficult and that they just didn’t had any money with them anymore. Frank, our manager got his 500€ back the day before, that he paid for the car and he used that money to pay our hotel for the third night.
The day after we returned to the event we went to ask our money back (500€), money for gasoline, toll etc to get back in Belgium. We were told that we would receive it back, that we did a good event and that neder, the boss of redcode will give it all back to us. We didn't have time to wait for the money, we wanted to but some of us were going to on vacation and we HAD to drive back. We had to trust them on their word, whatever that is worth. When we came back online, we thought everything was fine and that we would receive the money back but neder said he didn't even know of the arrangement and that we were already over our 500€ budget.
If the organisation would have arranged all the hotels, we wouldn't have to drive all night in Spain looking for hotels, wasting our gasoline while we have to play a world event the day after. I hope all of you will take the time to read this thing trough since friendship is going to waste because now we all have to pay a share part of 500€ back to Bax and some people don't want to do that since all of this just isn't fair..."
In another strange twist, since the original story was published here on SK Gaming, the press release on the redCode eSports site was taken down temporarily. Only to be reposted later by another administrator on the site.
"Our trip to Spain from A to Z:
We approached RedCode after our ESWC journey, for our organisation had no budget to pay for any international LAN.
We agreed to an initial budget of €500, to cover the primary travel expenses plus hotel stay, and agreed that extra expenses would be covered post-lan. A small summary of our costs:
Rental bus: €500
And there you have it, the initial budget all blown away just for the van!
Additional expenses:
Gasoline (all those with a car can and will agree)
Hotel stop on the road (driving 12hrs in a row = madness)
I will not go into detail, but the trip was a heavy one, beset with all sorts of problems. It took us 18hrs to get there. And the troubles only just commenced!
When we finally arrived at the Bilbao Exhibition centre (gamegune), it was already about 12 at night... After the trip we had we were really looking forward to get in our hotel room, since Yopi told us that everything was arranged. When we first met the redcode crew, everything seemed a little bit chaotic, since the guys who where responsible to take care of us and arrange our stuffs, like inscriptions, hotel, tournament information etc where the 3 same guys who organized the Counter-Strike 1.6 tournament. We still had a lot of confidence and we waited for a bout 1 hour at the entree of the gaming hall, redcode didn’t want to pay for our team coach his entree and they fixed him a press pass to get him free in. we felt a little bit weird about that, because our team coach was about to be with us during our games and not to be in the press area, but they said that if we get him in fast nobody would notice...
When we came at the point to get our hotel information for our first night in Spain, we suddenly heard that they didn't book any hotels and didn't have gear with them to get us a sleep at the LAN either. One guy from redCode even said that he didn’t know anything about booking a hotel for us, he didn’t even know about paying that for us. We confronted Yopi with everything and Yopi then said that they just had a small internal communication problem. The organisation didn’t have money to pay our hotel, but one of the crewmembers of redcode gave us money from his own bank account to pay our first night our hotel. Tough they couldn’t tell us where to find a hotel, since none of them was from Bilbao or knew the city. We went to about 5 hotels in a close range from the event that was within our budget, but all hotels where fully booked. We didn’t have any GPS and with no knowledge of Spanish we felt doomed and not helped by redCode at all. Luckily enough the Spanish people where very helpful and we found a random guy in the middle of the night who drove to a hotel about 20 minutes from the event. The money redcode paid wasn’t even enough to pay our first night, so we had to use our own last money for food, to pay the night.
The next day, we had problems to find our way back to the event, but we managed to get there, again with help from the good Spanish civilians. When we told the organisation about our hell night, they promised us that everything would be fixed for the second night and that we didn’t need to worries about anything at all.
After a full day of waiting and gaming we were about to go to our hotel again. Seemed that the redcode organisation again forgot to fix our hotel, again they gave us some money without any problems, from the crewmember his own bank account again. Same like the previous night, we had to find our hotel without any GPS or decent knowledge of the Spanish language. This night we weren’t so lucky, we where about driving for 1 and a half our in Spain to find a hotel that had room for 7 people. Suddenly out of nowhere we saw a truck with a Belgian car plate, we made him stop and asked him if he had a GPS and get us to a hotel, he did so, but we had to go on a very high and dangerous hill. Our car didn’t make the hill and it stopped in the middle of it, it was very dark there and we thought that we would die, because our car was going backwards downhill. We managed to get down very slow and take another road to the hotel we lost more then an hour again. About at 5 in the morning we found a hotel and could get some sleep. Yopi told us to be back at 1 in the afternoon, so we did.
When we where near the event, we got an SMS from a mate in Holland who told us we where disqualified, no one from redCode called us. When we arrived at the event, some admin from gamegune said that we had to play at 12, we confronted Yopi with him, because he said we had to play at 1, lucky for us the redCode admins had some influence on the gamegune admins and because Convention where really eager to play versus us after they beat SK Gaming.
We played our game and won it, even with all the extra motion we shouldn’t go trough. The same day we lost from PGS and from ZYKON and where knocked out of the tournament. At that point we saw that the crewmembers from redCode changed mentality towards us, and weren’t so friendly anymore, we felt that discussion would come up if we would ask for our hotel the 3rd night.
What we felt earlier, happened, again no hotels were booked and they didn’t want to give us money to go to a hotel. Our team captain ferdi had to threaten the redCode crew with actions and that it is totally unacceptable not getting a hotel for us. They clearly said that we were out of the tournament and that's why they acted all difficult and that they just didn’t had any money with them anymore. Frank, our manager got his 500€ back the day before, that he paid for the car and he used that money to pay our hotel for the third night.
The day after we returned to the event we went to ask our money back (500€), money for gasoline, toll etc to get back in Belgium. We were told that we would receive it back, that we did a good event and that neder, the boss of redcode will give it all back to us. We didn't have time to wait for the money, we wanted to but some of us were going to on vacation and we HAD to drive back. We had to trust them on their word, whatever that is worth. When we came back online, we thought everything was fine and that we would receive the money back but neder said he didn't even know of the arrangement and that we were already over our 500€ budget.
If the organisation would have arranged all the hotels, we wouldn't have to drive all night in Spain looking for hotels, wasting our gasoline while we have to play a world event the day after. I hope all of you will take the time to read this thing trough since friendship is going to waste because now we all have to pay a share part of 500€ back to Bax and some people don't want to do that since all of this just isn't fair..."
In another strange twist, since the original story was published here on SK Gaming, the press release on the redCode eSports site was taken down temporarily. Only to be reposted later by another administrator on the site.
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RedCode is right, they made a budget, DK went over it, they don't need to pay the extra, considering that DK didn't used their budget properly. If DK, for example, used their own cars to Spain, they would spend much less, and could use the rest to pay for the hotel or whatever.
In my opinion, DK doesn't know what a budget is.
O and btw first they wanted to pay our trip by plane which costed 1295€. They didnt whine about that either. (but when the car was like 3/400€ cheaper they asked us if we could try it by car.
You teamed up with redCode just before this event, they're givin you 500 fkin euros, expecting nothing in return, but you actually expect them to cover every single cost you've made? why the hell would they do that? wake up please.. you won 1 match. Lose the damn attitude, and be realistic. Mommy usually says u did good when u just tried your best, but real life is not at all like that chap.
Of course I agree entirely on the matter that redCode sounds like a bullshit organisation, but that's exactly why you should be extra careful. You trusted them and bumped your head. Time to learn some lessons I guess.
And about the money thing, you're really tellin me that some of you dont wanna pay Bax an amount less than 100euros? that's just extremely pathetic. Nice teamspirit guys. One night's work nets you 100 euros. And you're sayin they got money problems. Over a 100 euro debt. I'm just.... loling.
redCode payed you guys 500€
1300 - 500 = 800 euro's you guys had to pay out of your own pocket ... 7 of you guys were there
800/7 = 114 each
you guys payed 114€ each (transport, hotel, lan entrance, ... all INCLUSIVE)
If an organisation would ASK me to pay that amount to go to an event like gamegune I wouldn't doubt for one second!!
That means that rC already knew that they'll have to pay more than 500€... And do they realy believe that a spanish trip for 5 people (or 7) during 3 days (normaly more than 3) cost only 500€ ? Please put this unused brain ON ...
#67 you should rather shut the fuck up instead of saying shit... Angry wanabe...
Im realy having fun while reading such a bunch of pointless comments...
RedCode decided to sponsorise a foreign team to be able to see their name attending the biggest Spanish event ever (dont forget its a spanish organisation)... And this team placed higher than all the attending spanish teams... (And was fucking stronger than all the former redcode counter-strike squads)... So whats the point there?
They just scammed a "little" team and got a good free advertising... How much do you think they should have paid for a TOP squad ? Do you think that german, swedish, danish or polish stars should have agreed to make a 12hours car travel or being fucked up with the hotel stuff and so on ?
They tought they could fuck them up for free... They just didnt even fix ANYTHING there... No hotel, no entrance fee for the coach, and no way to get back to Belgium...
And to the people that say that 100 euro is nothing, please get a life or kill yourself... Why should the players work to pay something a professional organisation promised them?
We had a deal on this:
€500,- for the van and €300 for gasoline and stuff (i even called them from holland to ask if that was a problem, NONO thats no problem) So ok i paid the van since redcode didnt transfer any money to me and would receive it back at the event itself.
this actually were the only money talks since they would've booked the IBIS Hotel for 3 days and bought the tickets for the lan itself. So the only thing they normally had to do is give us like €800 and fixed their stuff properly (hotel/tickets). They didnt and they even publish a statement what isnt true, gg neider and his crew... really hope to see you sometime so we can have a nice discussion.
kapotlachen toch?? =D
Why make news about this?!:S
Regards.
God, all these blind fanboys are so tiring. Can't you just reflect on the matter in a rational way instead of goin all berserk, like "ST00PID R3DCODE!!!!111! GiVE ThE MoneY to DKidS THeY Were aLMOsT dEAD OmGZor"
btw #80 n1 joke :S
Apollo Nice story ;)
quoted from redcode site..
how can that be fair for them then?
the toll of the whole trip would already cost them 140 euro.. the costs of fuel is about 400 euros..
and then you still need to add the price of the bus..
so how can that be fair for both parties? thats just bullshit...
and besides the money thing..
redcode didnt arrange anything.. didnt book a hotel or even give a right location of some kind of place where they could stay the whole event.. cuz of there "small internal communication problem"
i dont understand that.. when they put money in a team..
they dont take care of the whole thing..
cuz if your team didnt get enough sleep or eat good or whatever.. it effects the results..
and eventually redcode wanted to have a team who would do good.. good for there name.. good for the sponsors .. etc right?
eventually they had the blame also for the results... and when the results where bad they stopped putting money in a, what they probably thought as a, lost case cuz of the bad results.. what also has to do with them not taking care of everything what had to be taken care of...
Just go back online and discuss it with redCode first before paying an insane amount for a bus which they probably thought u already had to your disposal in the first place (in redCodes view a wasted €500,- maybe?)
I would simply stay home if the arrangements made were of these standards... 'Yeah Yeah u'll get everything back LATER' just doesn't cut it when you're talking about reasonable amounts of money imo.
I agree with defusekids on this matter cuz from what i've read they were promised not only the €500,- but also other additional fees that should arrise (hotel costs, toll fees, gasoline, etc). And €500,- can be a lot for a student barely surviving as it is with the small amount of money they have at their disposal every month.
That being said it's also pretty naive to just rent a bus for €500,- and start heading to Spain thinking everything will be covered without having anything on paper except maybe an agreement which covers €500,- (which is already exceeded in the first minutes of the trip by just renting a bus).
An organisation should booked the hotels/tickets for the event BEFORE they even contacted a team.
And yeah split money! We went with our belgian team to Poitiers (FRANCE) for gamersassembly 2007 and we just splitted the 1400 € cost. And it was every peny worth!! But yeah, an agreement is an agreement imo, contracted or not! MSN logs can also be used as a legal weapon, even your toilet paper were you should made a contract!
Solve this out
rofl ;///
BTW: how can they(rC) put a statement like that lol, a true shame
there comes the careboat
__________
\__CARE__/