I've played wc3 for almost three years now. During this time I've met alot of players, normal people and admins. My question is if we really need all these admins, I mean, of course we will need some admins at all events, but in my opinion, they don't have to know anything about Wc3 since the players usually knows better than the admins about the maps, best-of-x-series and format of the tournament. For example: Before ACON5 I asked the Swedish admin which maps it was. He told me it was Plunder Isle, The Two Rivers, Lost Temple, TurtlE Rock and Twisted Meadows. Exactly the same as it was supposed to be during ESWC2004 (later they replaced TTR with Gnoll Wood). I asked the admin why, and he said he had discussed it with my "clanorga" Shire(who hadn't started wc3 more than for observing a game for like 10 months or so). I told him that no one playes TTR and PI anymore and he _should_ replace them with Echo Isles and Gnoll Wood, _BUT_ he should talk to the other players first and see what they thinks about it. But when the qualifier began alot of the players was like "that's really nice maps, good work!", like they didn't had expected it at all. The 2:nd thing with this tournament was that it was fixed maps, a thing which the most of the players (at least I) don't like at all, since you can win a hole bo3 just because of the startmap and nothing else.
I have another story which happend recently. It was in the Swedish pre WCG-qual. It was supposed to be play over 3-4 days, but it was changed to only 2 because of there was only like 30~ players that wanted to play. In the first groupstage it was best of 3 and fixed maps, I was against this system alot, but when I told the admin this, he only replied that I was just a crybaby and always cried. But the next day, it was suddenly a new system, the system I told him to use, but I was still just a crybaby and nothing more. Another strange thing, was that it was only single elimination during this stage, another thing alot of players complained about before it started, but nothing happend. The results of this is that MaDFRoG is out of the Swedish WCG-qual, the player I feared the most is out, and I'm pretty happy about it, but in my honest opinion, he is alot better than other players that qualified for the LAN-finals.
At events like this they should either let the players decide the rules, or they should have admins that knows really really much about the game, or admins that don't knows anything about the game. I've only told you about bad admin(s) so far, but there is alot of good admins aswell. WC3L have good admins, they have random maps, an okay and updated mappool and they do their work. ESWC had really good admins as well. I don't know if they knew so much about wc3 (some of them did like Blatty ofc), but they knew their work and what to do. They didn't have to think about getting flamed for the maps since it was 5 maps in the map-pool and all the games except for the first groupstage was bo3. You just removed 1 map each and then you played the 3 others. It worked really fine and I was happy with the tournament, even tho the headadmin was kind of stupid.
So at important events, let the players decide the maps/format/best-of-series together.Then just pick a random person who knows a little bit about wc3, and who is good at talking to people to organize the tournament.
September 9, 2005
Are Admins Really Needed?
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Kim 'SaSe' HammarArchive
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Just look at frogbender for example :)
I think players among the community should vote on what things they wish to play on. Admins are really there for the structure of the tournament and making sure everything goes to plan as it will be a pre-planned tournament.
I think on the contrary that admins are like referees in football, they're just part of the game, learn how and when to talk to them, and it will be OK.
I experienced what you describe in CS LANs, and it was just terrible to have to play old maps and/or single elimination, but life doesn't have to be fair! And it's always more challenging if you know that admins can disadvantage you.
The counterpart of what I say is that, at WC3, maps can be really determining because of races imbalances.
What he's trying to say is that the admins need to have knowledge of the game that they are in charge of. Or they should work closely with the players to determine WHAT IS THE BEST for everyone.
Anyways I like it. GG SaSe goes bloggmasterflex! ^^
thats work,too, and probably more than just playing
#20 Read everything please, and no, I don't think an admins work is more than just playing, I've played for 3 years or so now, and I'm not even 10% as good as moon~
In my opinion it would be the best choice to combine players and experienced admins to some kind of council.
And concerning #20 i've to agree with SaSe again.
Of course I respect work done by admins but in my opinion players job is still 10 times harder.
I think then it's easier to enjov events.
Completely bullshit
Sase ofc
and those who dont agree, are either just stupid, or havent read the whole article.
..or just have another opinion, as i claim myself not being that stupid and having read the whole article
i invented it back then for the german wcg preeliminaries 2001 in q3 and used it during my work for cpl europe in 2002 and 2003. first wc3 tournament using this system was the wc3 qualifier at cpl oslo in october 2002 (didi won and players like madfrog and four20 were in attendence as well). i made sure it was introduced in the german eps and later for the incup season finals. it think eswc copied it in 2004 for their own event
Aren't people normal players? :p
Good article indeed!
we do need some admins, but these MUST have knowledge of the game...2 or 3 years ago(when I was a regular cs player,with clan,sponsor etc) we lost a half of the map in a champ because the stupid admin was not aware that u can talk until ur screen gets all black!we tried to argue with him but he said that we would lose the entire match if we didnt shut up and play!!
so..u see..admins need to know the game,whatever it is..
this is my opinion but as I dont play W3(only DotA,TD,enfos,etc) I can be very wrong :D
HF
However, he isn't categorising all admins as incompetent, he's simply highlighting a common problem. I was head admin at most national tournaments in South Africa during 2003 and 2004, and the reason I started doing it was because of this exact problem. I got the feeling that many officials were either in it for the power trip (not being able to make it as players themselves), or were drafted by the people organising the overall tournaments as cheap labour. Both cases are a disaster.
Finding a practical solution will take time. In most cases, as Sase pointed out, the best admins were once players themselves. Herein lies the difficulty, of course, because most top players would rather play than admin (not because adminning is too much work, but because their first love is playing).
But in ten years or so, the retired gamers of today will make fantastic admins. They will have been through all the hassles of trying to work with uninformed organisers and will have a genuine interest in keeping the format as fair and as smooth as possible. This is largely how things are done in mainstream professional sports.
This coming from an admin: well said, Sase.
However, he isn't categorising all admins as incompetent, he's simply highlighting a common problem. I was head admin at most national tournaments in South Africa during 2003 and 2004, and the reason I started doing it was because of this exact problem. I got the feeling that many officials were either in it for the power trip (not being able to make it as players themselves), or were drafted by the people organising the overall tournaments as cheap labour. Both cases are a disaster.
Finding a practical solution will take time. In most cases, as Sase pointed out, the best admins were once players themselves. Herein lies the difficulty, of course, because most top players would rather play than admin (not because adminning is too much work, but because their first love is playing).
But in ten years or so, the retired gamers of today will make fantastic admins. They will have been through all the hassles of trying to work with uninformed organisers and will have a genuine interest in keeping the format as fair and as smooth as possible. This is largely how things are done in mainstream professional sports.
This coming from an admin: well said, Sase.
However, he isn't categorising all admins as incompetent, he's simply highlighting a common problem. I was head admin at most national tournaments in South Africa during 2003 and 2004, and the reason I started doing it was because of this exact problem. I got the feeling that many officials were either in it for the power trip (not being able to make it as players themselves), or were drafted by the people organising the overall tournaments as cheap labour. Both cases are a disaster.
Finding a practical solution will take time. In most cases, as Sase pointed out, the best admins were once players themselves. Herein lies the difficulty, of course, because most top players would rather play than admin (not because adminning is too much work, but because their first love is playing).
But in ten years or so, the retired gamers of today will make fantastic admins. They will have been through all the hassles of trying to work with uninformed organisers and will have a genuine interest in keeping the format as fair and as smooth as possible. This is largely how things are done in mainstream professional sports.
This coming from an admin: well said, Sase.
Funny how just refreshing the page creates multiple posts.
But I'll also agree that there can be very stupid administrators at times =/
ps: about blatty, he sould learn to be more polite with "noobs" and stop licking "pros" balls :/
...
The happy middle way is that not-so-competitive but still experienced of divisions 2 & 3 (out of 5-6), where admins really aren't that needed, since players know what works, but aren't that all-knowing that they refuse to compromise. At all other levels you can't let players start bickering (and they will, constantly, about everything) because as fun as that is, admins are forced to see the bigger picture of schedules, all the groups, all the players and the tournament as a whole. Sure, you may want to play 4 practice games on some map before your official match, but oh look, there's a 2-hour slot for your match to be played in, and along with all the useless (and inevitable) configuration and warming up, you need to start NOW.
That's not to say that useless admins don't exist - yes, there are incompetent admins just as there are incompetent players. But experienced admins who know the game (preferably ex-players) make any tournament run like clockwork (provided the players co-operate). As a long-time admin, I've learnt one thing about players: you're all prissy, whiny bitches who always need to be right. God bless admins for still caring about your pathetic little asses and wanting to help you maybe make some money from playing a computer game. God bless them all.