There is a lot of controversy surrounding the China/Taiwan incident, if you are unaware of it you can read a brief http://www.sk-gaming.com/scene/13328/]overview[/url] of what "supposidly" happened.
I'm not here to debate who is right and who is wrong just try to provide the context so that people can understand the whole situation.
If we simplify it to the very basics the tension between the countries is over the debate of whether Taiwan is a legimate country or not. Taiwan does have the 5 criteria required for a country; its own army, money, culture, language & territory in their eyes. However Taiwan has been warned that any attempt to declare independence will result in military action.
Before 1971 China's seat at the United Nations was for "The Republic of China" (ROC) which represented mainland China as well as islands which including Taiwan. In 1971 however ROC lost its seat at the UN to the People Republic of China (PRC). This however was after the First (1954-1955) and Second Taiwan Strait Crisis (1958) which involved two short military conflicts between the ROC and the PRC.
The PRC are now recognised by most sovereign states and decided after 1979 to try to resolve the "Taiwan dispute" without any need for war.
Side Note
Although in 1995 however they drew up the "Anti-Secession Law" in which states 3 conditions in which the PRC would invade Taiwan, these conditions are:
1. If events occur leading to the separation of Taiwan from China in any name
2. If a major event occurs which would lead to Taiwan's separation from China
3. If all possibility of peaceful unification is lost.
The PRC still did not recognise the Republic of China (Taiwan) and claims the island of Taiwan as part of its own territory & effectively blocks the Republic of China (Taiwan) from using their official national title "Republic of China" in international organisations.
The Kuomitang a Taiwanese controlled Political Party supporting eventual reunification with the mainland refused to be designated (titled/named) "Taiwan, China" because it made Taiwan sound like the subordinate (lower-rank/slave) of the PRC gouverment.
Therefore in November of 1979 the International Olympic Committee and later all the international sports federations adopted a resolution which recognised the National Olympic Committee of Taiwan as the National Olympic Committee of Chinese Taipei and every sports team or athlete from Taiwan would compete as Chinese Taipei.
In this resolution however Chinese Taipei (Taiwan) would have to adopt the Chinese Taipei Olympic Flag as their flag which consists of the Taipei Olympic Committee emblem on a white background, you can see the flag [url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/46/Chinese_Taipei_Olympic_Flag_(bordered).svg/450px-Chinese_Taipei_Olympic_Flag_(bordered).svg.png.
The flag waved at WCG however was not the Chinese Taipei flag but the Taiwanese flag adopted in 1928 and which represents an "indepedent" Taiwan. The Chinese are angry because in their eyes Taiwan has no right to wave the flag and the Taiwanese are angry because they consider themselves an independent state but are threatened by war if they attempt to declare it.
Seriousness aside I showed my girlfriend (who happens to be Chinese) the article on Taiwanese yahoo and asked why are these Chinese SO angry? She tried to explain simply and said "imagine if Taiwan is your son and you help him financially take care of him but one day when he is old he says NO I am not from your family, I am independent!"
She however just found it crazy Chinese gamers were getting so angry.
The facts here are true to the best of my knowledge and hope it clarifies the status of Taiwan and China.
October 10, 2007
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Lawrence 'Malystryx' PhillipsArchive
Could have said it all with literally just the the quote from your girlfriend though :p
I think everything except this sentence is relatively neutral and accurate. As far as summaries go, this is quite respectable.
Hi all,
As a Chinese, I admit Fly and PJ are not calm enough.
But to all of the repliers of this article, are you calm enough? Do you know the whole historical stories between China main-land and Taiwan in past 60 years? Do you know the definition of "China" in Constitution of PRC, Constitution of ROC and constitution of UN?
If you are not clear of the background, why you guys questioning China and Chinese? China main-land and Taiwan's situation is not as simlilar as North & South Korea. More complicated than that.
it doest matter whats if difrent betwen Chinese and Taiwans... They shouldt kick (or push etc.) anyone only because he from Taiwan...
"imagine if Taiwan is your son and you help him financially take care of him but one day when he is old he says NO I am not from your family, I am independent!"
I do not recall any past event where PRC government offered assistance to Taiwan government in anyway. Okay, it was what your gf said and not your point of view, but then its a bad example of why the Chinese got angry.
Secondly, I had to read this sentence several times to understand it "Seriousness aside I showed my girlfriend who is Chinese the article in Chinese". Perhaps whom is a better word to use than who. I'm not trying to be picky, but it was a little confusing.
She however just found it crazy Chinese gamers were getting so angry."
How can you write that without noticing how stupid it sounds.
Any chinese people who have been educated outside of their country know that taiwan has to be free. The problem is not "anger" or "war", it's what millions of children learn every day at school. The exact same nonsense your gilfriend said.
While noting that I do not support the act of violence, had it occured, it must be noted that the 'attack' wasn't "only because he from Taiwan" but rather from the apparant provocation by the Taiwanese person waving their flag.
#7
Perhaps not the current Taiwanese government, but presumably given the hundreds of years the land has been part of China, some assitance would have been rendered during those times.
Oh and I'm 99% sure that the usage of whom there would be incorrect.
#8
Blatant ignorance and arrogance. I have an Australian education (having been born here), and I disagree with you.
Is whom really incorrect? I looked up the definition of "whom" in Collins English Dictionary and it says;
" You use whom at the begining of a relative clause when specifying the person or group of people you are talking about or when giving more information about them". In this case whom is used to give the information that the girlfriend is Chinese?
Okay, I am not very good at English but i think using whom there is fine and would be simpler to understand, no? Well, using bracket is fine also, I myself would probably do that as well.
Note: I'm minicoocoo but that account is banned for spamming :p
the behaviour of those chinese gamers just shows how brainwashed those people are.
"He is the person whom I wanted to see."
"He needs someone in whom he can confide."
Where as "who" is appropriate here:
"A {caller} who {gave}..."
and thus:
"A {girlfriend} who {is}..."
Though I probably would have just written this:
"I showed my Chinese girlfriend the article"
:)
"tell me what china did for taiwan except for threats or brutal knockdowns of riots?"
What are these brutal knockdowns you speak of? Because obviously you can not be suggesting the certifiably false notion that the Chinese army physically suppresses protestors in Taiwan. I would also advise you to examine Taiwan's history prior to the Japanese conquest.
"how is taiwan china's son or somehow property of china?"
I suppose the main point is quite simple, China claims sovereignty over Taiwan. Since only some 20 or so tiny countries recognise Taiwan as a seperate country, the assumption is that Taiwan is part of China.
"the behaviour of those chinese gamers just shows how brainwashed those people are."
Given that you have demonstrated no knowledge of the issue, yet so enthusiastically oppose China, the evidence would suggest that you are "brainwashed".
But still i dont understand this behaviour and, as ive never even been to that region, i prolly never will. Because of that i wont comment on any China vs Taiwan issue.
Anyways, it is never justified to treat people that way and dont come up with deep hate or anything like that. There simply is no justification for this behaviour. In addition to that, a racist background makes the incident (im only talking about the physical\psychological attacks on the taiwanese players) even worse.
It would appear as though sk's article was amended to Chinese players "insulted", not physically attacked (or at least the "skirmishes" were mutual and later), the Taiwanese representives. I'm sure that the position of many will be that the provocation of flying the Taiwanese flag justifies the insults.
Every sportevent should be a place without politics, racism and ignorance. The chinese people should learn that until next year.
Surely the Chinese players have the right to respond negatively to the aggressive political statement (as the Chinese see it) made by the Taiwanese players. To make an slightly inaccurate analogy, would you expect people to not disapprove sharply if a player started waving KKK banners in the medal ceremony?
"Every sportevent should be a place without politics, racism and ignorance. The chinese people should learn that until next year."
I see. So what the Taiwanese did is not political (note that this practice was disallwed by the WCG in 2001 as pointed out in numerous threads on this site)? Unless you are referring to Taiwan as part of China, I'm going to have to accuse you of bias and hypocrisy.
So, I will try to make it short, just by stating some facts, I collected in my encyclopaedia (Universalis) and which speak for themselves.
Taiwan is a colony of china around the year 1600 and after they brought some new techniques, the island became pretty much ignored, until the chineses realised its importance around 1880.
However, they rapidly lost it to the japaneses 15 years later. It's only after having played an important role for Japan during the second world war that the chineses finally get the island back.
The recent part of the history can be found in this blog, but it's only by knowing the past that you can really understand the situation.
Yes, this attitude is nothing different from what we have experienced in europe. The colonized countries claim their indepence and the dominant state's paternalistic attitude turns into dismayed, but you mustn't forget, the local populations never asked for anything, they just suffered things as they went and sooner or later, they always figured out they deserved better.
To those who try to see things in an objective way, it's unfair to force a population to stay inside your borders, to adopt your laws. However I don't know how many concessions chineses were ready to make, but absolutely wanting to keep taiwan with them is a clear reprehensible remain of the colonialist times.
#17 Yes, that's what I learnt, but thanks for clearing it up for non-english people, like me.
prior to the japanese conquest china ruled in taiwan, but how did they come there? they annexed the island just like japan did after the settlers from holland were chase away. on top of that the taiwanese people had to adopt chinese culture/religion etc..is that the support u mean? but it is pointless to argue with this kind of history.
concerning the knockdowns: the riot in 1947 (people in taiwan were disappointed because of the ruling corruption etc) was brutally knocked down by the chinese government.
"how is taiwan china's son or somehow property of china?"
I suppose the main point is quite simple, China claims sovereignty over Taiwan. Since only some 20 or so tiny countries recognise Taiwan as a seperate country, the assumption is that Taiwan is part of China.
sry, but this pargrapsh shows how blatantly superficial UR knowledge is. many countries dont recognise taiwan as an own state OFFICIALLY, because due to chinas strict politics (one-china-politics) the other countrys have to decide between PRC and ROC ... of course those countries choose china as it is a much stronger partner.
on the other hand the ROC (tawain and the other islands) was a member at the foundation of the UN ... so in fact the other members did recognize them as sovereign.
on top, taiwan already practically is independant they just dont dare to declare it officially.
sry for this stupid history debate, but the way pertile wants to put it is just blatantly ignorant, nothing else. in the end u cant be completely pro taiwan or pro china if u want to stay neutral. i just wanted to show that chinas belief of possesing taiwan and being taiwans savior is not that correct.
You think you are objective?you think the truth is that the main land threaten Taiwan?Right,OK,I am very sure to declear that you are also the victim of brainwashing just like us,but many of us have different opinions.When talking about issues like human rights,freedom of expression and something like that,all of you think the western value is right undoubtedly...
I find most of you know noting about China and can easily be misled by the media
Do not regard something as Self-evident...introspection is very important
seriously, #29 is a perfect example for brainwashing
is the man.........actually really a pity he lost and had to flee to Taiwan ;)
#29 - yes, this is your internal affair as far as YOU and YOUR commie government is concerned. To Taiwan this is an international affair. Why, China cannot even have the Olympic flame pass through Taiwan because Taiwan doesn't allow it! Ha-ha-ha! FYI: nearly 1,000 PROC missiles are aimed at Taiwan - that is not a threat? Whazzat? Decoration? As for being misled by media - tell me - why do the Chinese gov't have to censor everything? Because they think the Chinese are too stupid and gullible so they are not allowed to think for themselves?
#22 - Prior to the Japanese conquest, Taiwan is an ignored backwater. It was during the Japanese occupation that Taiwan was developed (Railway, education, health system, etc...). Ever wonder why the Taiwanese admire the Japanese more than the Chinese? During the 2001 earthquake, the Chinese disallowed the Russians from flying over their airspace to deliver relief supplies for the victims. During the SARS crisis, WHO officials were prevented by the Chinese from helping Taiwan. As one Chinese official infamously commented on TV: "Who cares about you Taiwanese"?
Official Taiwanese independence is inevitable. We hope peacefully. But I will say this, we will not hesitate to kill any Chinese that invades Taiwan. Even if it's Yao Ming, and I'm a Rocket's fan. Okay maybe not kill, just immobilize in a Mini somewhere until the war is over.
As for the international community -
Note that the USA never said it recognizes China's claim to Taiwan, it merely "noted" China's assertion. I challenge any Chinese here to find an official document that says otherwise.
As for Taiwan not being admitted to the UN, well, it's human rights committee is headed by a country known for human rights violations. Nuff said.
Peace plz
/my 2 euro-cent
A few things I should say:
1. I agree with Petile, and look he is from Australia and he is also brainwashed by Chinese Communist? Do not make sense to me.
2. #31 Talk about brainwash? Talk about your ignorance. What you said is much more biased and brainwashed by "anti-communist" than the Chinese here.
3. #32 What made you think your encyclopedia is not biased and neglecting some important information? And talk about European colonialization over China during late 19th to early 20th century, who is more of a colonizer? Other than the issue of taiwan, can u give another example of Chinese colonization? Your Westerinized way of viewing this matter is totally disagrace.
4. #36 Once again, biased like everyone else. And from my knowledge, taiwan is not an ignored island, during the early 17th century, China and Neitherland colonials had war to gain my its sovereignty for the Chinese, right? Talk about history facts, once again it proved how Europeans are much more colonial than the Chinese.
My last point. As a Canadian, and how this article is derived, I agree that PJ and Fly did not treat this problem in the calm and mannered way, but who is the starter of this problem? It's the person who broke the rule and bring out something that is not suppose to brought up on the stage.
Enough said.
no point in discussing this,in 50 years there will only be one country, Norway.
after second world war it was the KMT party that signed the treaty that says taiwan returns to china, until then KMT was the legit government of all china.
well we know that the KMT lost to the communist party, but the KMT just went over to taiwan, but still claiming that the KMT party is the legit government of china, just ruling from taiwan. thats why we call us the Republic of China. Basically there were two ruling governments, both claiming to be the legit government. The fact is KMT, Republic of China, signed the treaty (FACT) therefore why don't they have the right to rule over it, both parties still exist, who gives the right to claim its the ruling party?
u got mainland china, we have just a tiny island with no raw materials, u could careless... pride? money? economy? or maybe history? If its history then KMT is legit ruler of all taiwan and china.
u know why america doesnt recognise taiwan anymore? because u were, are communist. the US tried seperating u from russia, which they succeeded. taiwan was the first democratic nation, they helped taiwan not being influenced by the communist wave.
well america has done its job, and now taiwan has basically no use for the americans. not really, since china is becoming a real threat taking the number one military and economy power. so they still have ties to taiwan unofficially, because as someone said taiwan is a important military option in the east asian region, like japan because of north korea, and taiwan because of china.
China nowadays is not a communist country at all!
I think everything except this sentence is relatively neutral and accurate. As far as summaries go, this is quite respectable.
So you are saying TW
1. dont have its own army?
2. dont have its own currency?
3. dont have its language? (plz dont say just because TW and China speak same language, therefore TW is not a country. UK and US speak same language too, so does NZ, Australia etc..)
4. dont have its own culture?
5. dont have its own territory? (if TW dont have its territory, then why China's army dont just march to Taipei? and settle this issue once n for all?)
Technically, the TWness team is wrong for wave the flag.
But in reality, I wouldn't say it deserve anything near physical and verbal abuse from Chinses team.
Further more, the idea of TW team is forbidden to wave TW flag is a very obscure rule, it could be the case the young kid didn't even realize it.
I would like to make a case that IF the act of TW team holding TW flag is forbidden, why don't the WCG official take the flag off him when he go to receive his award?!?!!!!! I would bet my money that even the WCG official on site there didn't realize TW team is forbidden to hold TW flag, otherwise they will do something about it.
Imagine if the TW player holding a gun onto the stage, (of even just a baseball bat), what will the WCG official react?
Furthermore, some would see the act of holding TW flag is a provoking Chinese people. I wouldn't agree on that. In a international event, isn't it only natural to wear something represent your country when you receiving an award?
If the TWness boy know precisely its against the rule, then its a different story.